Which honey is good?

[Joerg]

Reading up on honey additions to beer many sources state that while
industrially treated honey from large stores is not ideal it could be
used at least during the boil or maybe towards the end of the boil.
Which is what I was planning to try. Among other recipe kits I ordered a
simple American Wheat set that I'd like to use as a "test vehicle".

The old method of buying from bee keepers would be very expensive as
even $10/lbs is already considered a "friendship price". What about less
expensive honey such as Kirkland Clover Honey from Costco?

http://www.costcobusinessdelivery.com/Kirkland-Signature-Pure-Clover-Honey,-5-lbs.product.11747875.html

Our local store seems not to have it and they won't ship to our zip code
for some reason but it looks like I can get it at Amazon or similar
places for $4-5/lbs.

https://www.amazon.com/Kirkland-Signature-Pure-Honey-Pound/dp/B007F2EQEW

Any words of wisdom?

[D Ash]

Post by Joerg
Reading up on honey additions to beer many sources state that while
industrially treated honey from large stores is not ideal it could be
used at least during the boil or maybe towards the end of the boil.
Which is what I was planning to try. Among other recipe kits I ordered
a simple American Wheat set that I'd like to use as a "test vehicle".
The old method of buying from bee keepers would be very expensive as
even $10/lbs is already considered a "friendship price". What about
less expensive honey such as Kirkland Clover Honey from Costco?
http://www.costcobusinessdelivery.com/Kirkland-Signature-Pure-Clover-Ho
ney,-5-lbs.product.11747875.html
Our local store seems not to have it and they won't ship to our zip
code for some reason but it looks like I can get it at Amazon or
similar places for $4-5/lbs.
https://www.amazon.com/Kirkland-Signature-Pure-Honey-Pound/dp/B007F2EQE
W
Any words of wisdom?

Pure honey. Any honey which crystalises in time is pure. And, with honey,
you will get what you pay for. Go cheap and you'll be using honey diluted
with high fructose corn syrup. If you can, find an apiarist and get it from
the source.

I'm fortunate-- my local brew shop carries a Washington brand of pure
mountain wildflower honey for less than $20/3 lb jar. There's a good price
break for larger amounts, as well. Wife is pushing me to make a mead for
her. That's gonna be a costly one!

[Joerg]

Post by D Ash

Post by Joerg
Reading up on honey additions to beer many sources state that while
industrially treated honey from large stores is not ideal it could be
used at least during the boil or maybe towards the end of the boil.
Which is what I was planning to try. Among other recipe kits I ordered
a simple American Wheat set that I'd like to use as a "test vehicle".
The old method of buying from bee keepers would be very expensive as
even $10/lbs is already considered a "friendship price". What about
less expensive honey such as Kirkland Clover Honey from Costco?
http://www.costcobusinessdelivery.com/Kirkland-Signature-Pure-Clover-Ho
ney,-5-lbs.product.11747875.html
Our local store seems not to have it and they won't ship to our zip
code for some reason but it looks like I can get it at Amazon or
similar places for $4-5/lbs.
https://www.amazon.com/Kirkland-Signature-Pure-Honey-Pound/dp/B007F2EQE
W
Any words of wisdom?

Pure honey. Any honey which crystalises in time is pure. And, with honey,
you will get what you pay for. Go cheap and you'll be using honey diluted
with high fructose corn syrup. If you can, find an apiarist and get it from
the source.

The problem is how to find out whether it is just colored corn syrup or
real honey. Mayeb I should write to Costco and ask.

Post by D Ash
I'm fortunate-- my local brew shop carries a Washington brand of pure
mountain wildflower honey for less than $20/3 lb jar. There's a good price
break for larger amounts, as well. Wife is pushing me to make a mead for
her. That's gonna be a costly one!

Oh yeah, more than 2x versus LME. But ... got to keep the missus happy.

[D Ash]

Post by Joerg

Post by D Ash

Post by Joerg
Reading up on honey additions to beer many sources state that while
industrially treated honey from large stores is not ideal it could
be used at least during the boil or maybe towards the end of the
boil. Which is what I was planning to try. Among other recipe kits I
ordered a simple American Wheat set that I'd like to use as a "test
vehicle".
The old method of buying from bee keepers would be very expensive as
even $10/lbs is already considered a "friendship price". What about
less expensive honey such as Kirkland Clover Honey from Costco?
http://www.costcobusinessdelivery.com/Kirkland-Signature-Pure-

Clover-

Post by Joerg

Post by D Ash

Post by Joerg
Ho ney,-5-lbs.product.11747875.html
Our local store seems not to have it and they won't ship to our zip
code for some reason but it looks like I can get it at Amazon or
similar places for $4-5/lbs.
https://www.amazon.com/Kirkland-Signature-Pure-Honey-

Pound/dp/B007F2E

Post by Joerg

Post by D Ash

Post by Joerg
QE W
Any words of wisdom?

Pure honey. Any honey which crystalises in time is pure. And, with
honey, you will get what you pay for. Go cheap and you'll be using
honey diluted with high fructose corn syrup. If you can, find an
apiarist and get it from the source.

The problem is how to find out whether it is just colored corn syrup
or real honey. Mayeb I should write to Costco and ask.

I'll save you the time-- diluted honey is all Costco carries. Pure honey
will have the statement what to do when it does crystalize. Adulterated
honey will not.

[baloonon]

Post by Joerg

Post by D Ash

Post by Joerg
Reading up on honey additions to beer many sources state that while
industrially treated honey from large stores is not ideal it could
be used at least during the boil or maybe towards the end of the
boil. Which is what I was planning to try. Among other recipe kits I
ordered a simple American Wheat set that I'd like to use as a "test
vehicle".
The old method of buying from bee keepers would be very expensive as
even $10/lbs is already considered a "friendship price". What about
less expensive honey such as Kirkland Clover Honey from Costco?
http://www.costcobusinessdelivery.com/Kirkland-Signature-Pure-

Clover-Ho ney,-5-lbs.product.11747875.html

Post by Joerg

Post by D Ash

Post by Joerg
Our local store seems not to have it and they won't ship to our zip
code for some reason but it looks like I can get it at Amazon or
similar places for $4-5/lbs.
https://www.amazon.com/Kirkland-Signature-Pure-Honey-

Pound/dp/B007F2EQE W

Post by Joerg

Post by D Ash

Post by Joerg
Any words of wisdom?

Pure honey. Any honey which crystalises in time is pure. And, with
honey, you will get what you pay for. Go cheap and you'll be using
honey diluted with high fructose corn syrup. If you can, find an
apiarist and get it from the source.

The problem is how to find out whether it is just colored corn syrup
or real honey. Mayeb I should write to Costco and ask.

Also be aware that the flavor and aroma contribution of honey is almost
zero compared to corn syrup unless you start talking about significant
volumes, especially if you're adding the honey to the boil.

A lot of recipes talk about adding a pint or so of honey, and besides
the standard effect of sugar, that volume is going to add very little to
nothing that you won't get from a comparable amount of corn syrup or
white sugar. You'd struggle to get a lot of taste from a pint of honey
diluted in nothing but 5 gallons of water, and then factor in the
effects of malt and hops and yeast and it's even tougher to notice.

[G***@who.knows]

Post by Joerg
Reading up on honey additions to beer many sources state that while
industrially treated honey from large stores is not ideal it could be
used at least during the boil or maybe towards the end of the boil.
Which is what I was planning to try. Among other recipe kits I ordered a
simple American Wheat set that I'd like to use as a "test vehicle".
The old method of buying from bee keepers would be very expensive as
even $10/lbs is already considered a "friendship price". What about less
expensive honey such as Kirkland Clover Honey from Costco?
http://www.costcobusinessdelivery.com/Kirkland-Signature-Pure-Clover-Honey,-5-lbs.product.11747875.html
Our local store seems not to have it and they won't ship to our zip code
for some reason but it looks like I can get it at Amazon or similar
places for $4-5/lbs.
https://www.amazon.com/Kirkland-Signature-Pure-Honey-Pound/dp/B007F2EQEW
Any words of wisdom?

See if there is a honey farm/commercial bee keeping in your area.
Here in Central Texas we have Walker Honey Farm
(http://www.walkerhoneyfarm.com/). I drive there and get honey for
$40-50/gallon ($3-4/lb). I make Mead with it. I know they ship, but
don't know the shipping charges.

[Joerg]

Post by G***@who.knows

Post by Joerg
Reading up on honey additions to beer many sources state that while
industrially treated honey from large stores is not ideal it could be
used at least during the boil or maybe towards the end of the boil.
Which is what I was planning to try. Among other recipe kits I ordered a
simple American Wheat set that I'd like to use as a "test vehicle".
The old method of buying from bee keepers would be very expensive as
even $10/lbs is already considered a "friendship price". What about less
expensive honey such as Kirkland Clover Honey from Costco?
http://www.costcobusinessdelivery.com/Kirkland-Signature-Pure-Clover-Honey,-5-lbs.product.11747875.html
Our local store seems not to have it and they won't ship to our zip code
for some reason but it looks like I can get it at Amazon or similar
places for $4-5/lbs.
https://www.amazon.com/Kirkland-Signature-Pure-Honey-Pound/dp/B007F2EQEW
Any words of wisdom?

See if there is a honey farm/commercial bee keeping in your area.
Here in Central Texas we have Walker Honey Farm
(http://www.walkerhoneyfarm.com/). I drive there and get honey for
$40-50/gallon ($3-4/lb). I make Mead with it. I know they ship, but
don't know the shipping charges.

Ah, like this:

http://www.walkerhoneyfarm.com/central-texas-wildflower-gallon-12-lbs/

They want all sorts of personal data before estimating shipping charges
but it's going to be steep.

[Ecnerwal]

Post by Joerg
Any words of wisdom?

Find the non-boutique commercial producer hear you, and buy direct. One
troubling factor in recent years has been cheap imported honey with a
dubious pedigree - both adulterated and contaminated are possible. I
tracked a local producer down and got 60 lbs dropped off as he was
making the rounds of the hives, no extra shipping cost. As with many
things, buying a lot at once (in a standard unit) makes your deal better
with most producers.

[Joerg]

Post by Joerg
Reading up on honey additions to beer many sources state that while
industrially treated honey from large stores is not ideal it could be
used at least during the boil or maybe towards the end of the boil.
Which is what I was planning to try. Among other recipe kits I ordered a
simple American Wheat set that I'd like to use as a "test vehicle".
The old method of buying from bee keepers would be very expensive as
even $10/lbs is already considered a "friendship price". What about less
expensive honey such as Kirkland Clover Honey from Costco?
http://www.costcobusinessdelivery.com/Kirkland-Signature-Pure-Clover-Honey,-5-lbs.product.11747875.html
Our local store seems not to have it and they won't ship to our zip code
for some reason but it looks like I can get it at Amazon or similar
places for $4-5/lbs.
https://www.amazon.com/Kirkland-Signature-Pure-Honey-Pound/dp/B007F2EQEW
Any words of wisdom?

Thanks, guys. I'll give up on the honey idea for now then until I can
find a larger local producer who will to sell a large jar at a good price.

[baloonon]

Post by Joerg
Thanks, guys. I'll give up on the honey idea for now then until I can
find a larger local producer who will to sell a large jar at a good price.

Honey malt supposedly gives a bit of honey flavor to beer, although I'm a
bit dubious about how true that really is beyond a bit sweetness. You can
also experiment a bit by making flower extracts by soaking edible flowers
like (I believe) roses and violets in a little vodka and adding after
fermentation like you would add vanilla extract. I've read this can give a
bit of floral flavor and aroma, and clover flowers may do something
similar. You'll also get the drying/lightening effect by adding a similar
quantity of sugar syrup to replace honey.

[Joerg]

Post by baloonon

Post by Joerg
Thanks, guys. I'll give up on the honey idea for now then until I can
find a larger local producer who will to sell a large jar at a good price.

Honey malt supposedly gives a bit of honey flavor to beer, although I'm a
bit dubious about how true that really is beyond a bit sweetness. You can
also experiment a bit by making flower extracts by soaking edible flowers
like (I believe) roses and violets in a little vodka and adding after
fermentation like you would add vanilla extract. I've read this can give a
bit of floral flavor and aroma, and clover flowers may do something
similar. You'll also get the drying/lightening effect by adding a similar
quantity of sugar syrup to replace honey.

Such tricks seem to have an effect indeed. When looking around the more
fancy and complicated recipe kits I found one where they recommend
cutting up little oak cubes, soaking them in a certain type of Whiskey
and then dropping them into the secondary fermenter.

[Ecnerwal]

Post by baloonon

Post by Joerg
Thanks, guys. I'll give up on the honey idea for now then until I can
find a larger local producer who will to sell a large jar at a good price.

Honey malt supposedly gives a bit of honey flavor to beer, although I'm a
bit dubious about how true that really is

Honey malt gives *some sort of flavor* to beer. It's the only ingredient
I've played with so far where I ended up thinking "huge mistake"...

Quasi-local-to-me beekeeper sells 60 lbs for $180, add $40 to ship it.
Check vermont craigslist, make some mead.

I see a difference in bubble size (smaller) when I prime with honey. No
idea WHY, but I do.

[D Ash]

Post by Ecnerwal
I see a difference in bubble size (smaller) when I prime with honey.
No idea WHY, but I do.

Yes, same observation here. Finer bubbles in the head. Agree on no idea
why.

[Joerg]

Post by D Ash

Post by Ecnerwal
I see a difference in bubble size (smaller) when I prime with honey.
No idea WHY, but I do.

Yes, same observation here. Finer bubbles in the head. Agree on no idea
why.

I have read that as well. So far I am using corn sugar because that
comes with the recipe kits. What kind of honey are you using for
carbonation? The good stuff from the bee keeper or simple store-bought
honey?

[Ecnerwal]

Post by Joerg
I have read that as well. So far I am using corn sugar because that
comes with the recipe kits. What kind of honey are you using for
carbonation? The good stuff from the bee keeper or simple store-bought
honey?

Either. I do try to make sure that my grocery store honey is not
imported. At the moment I have a number of pounds I haven't turned into
mead from my last 60 lb purchase, so it fills all honey uses until it's
gone.

[D Ash]

Post by Joerg

Post by D Ash

Post by Ecnerwal
I see a difference in bubble size (smaller) when I prime with honey.
No idea WHY, but I do.

Yes, same observation here. Finer bubbles in the head. Agree on no idea
why.

I have read that as well. So far I am using corn sugar because that
comes with the recipe kits. What kind of honey are you using for
carbonation? The good stuff from the bee keeper or simple store-bought
honey?

Only the best ingedients go into my beer. YMMV. (grin) ((but it's true))

[rb]

Post by Joerg

Post by Joerg
Any words of wisdom?

Thanks, guys. I'll give up on the honey idea for now then until I can
find a larger local producer who will to sell a large jar at a good price.

Don't just leap on to any old honey you can get in bulk.
I made a leatherwood honey based mead and with hindsight I used too much
leatherwood honey, as it has a strong 'character'.
Trust me leatherwood honey aint cheap. I really wanted to like that mead
because of the money I had sunk in it. In the end even I had to admit it
was too much. Maybe if I had aged it another 5 years...

I would suggest tasting the honey before hand. Anything that has a
dominant profile that you find pleasing I would suggest that should make
up to 25%-33% of the total honey 'bill' for a first batch batch.
I currently have some regional stringybark honey that is divine. But I
would be wary of using in a mead in any quantity.
my 2c
rb
--

[Joerg]

Post by rb

Post by Joerg

Post by Joerg
Any words of wisdom?

Thanks, guys. I'll give up on the honey idea for now then until I can
find a larger local producer who will to sell a large jar at a good price.

Don't just leap on to any old honey you can get in bulk.
I made a leatherwood honey based mead and with hindsight I used too much
leatherwood honey, as it has a strong 'character'.
Trust me leatherwood honey aint cheap. I really wanted to like that mead
because of the money I had sunk in it. In the end even I had to admit it
was too much. Maybe if I had aged it another 5 years...
I would suggest tasting the honey before hand.

I accidentally did. After pouring 40% of the jug into an American Wheat
at the end of boil some honey drip down the side if the jug. I ate that
and it tasted really good. Not dominatn flavors. It is clover honey from
Petersen Farms in Minnesota. Or was, now it's in the Wheat Beer and in a
Stout.

Post by rb
... Anything that has a
dominant profile that you find pleasing I would suggest that should make
up to 25%-33% of the total honey 'bill' for a first batch batch.
I currently have some regional stringybark honey that is divine. But I
would be wary of using in a mead in any quantity.

Thanks, good point. Next time I want to buy honey from a local
beekeeper. I know him personally so I am sure he'll let me try first.
And I am going to bring him one of my Belgian Tripels.

[Ecnerwal]

Post by rb
Maybe if I had aged it another 5 years...

Hmm, might be getting time to bother with trying another bottle of the
2011 mead bottling. The '96 was OK for a year, terrible for 4, then good
up to now (down to one or two bottles now.)

[rb]

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by rb
Maybe if I had aged it another 5 years...

Hmm, might be getting time to bother with trying another bottle of the
2011 mead bottling. The '96 was OK for a year, terrible for 4, then good
up to now (down to one or two bottles now.)

know exactly where you are at - it always seems to be the couple of
bottles of 20xy that has been horrible for years which magically start
tasting fantastic with two bottles left:(
rb

--