Hefeweizen: To Stir or Not To Stir

[G. Filicetti]

Guys,

I'd like a quick sanity check re: the Hefeweizen I plan on brewing this weekend. (PS.. this is the first brew I will be in control of as opposed to being a spectator of).

I'm using a Wheat Beer yeast (liquid, similar to WyEast 3068), and I was told that the yeast is what holds all the banana and cloves flavour. Because of this fact, it was recommended that I gently stir the wort before I rack to the bottling bucket so that I'm picking up a good part of the yeast instead of leaving it behind like you normally would. Also, it was recommended that before drinking a bottle of this beer, that I roll the bottle so as to kick up the yeast because I want to drink the yeast and get the banana and cloves flavour. Also, secondary fermatation was deemed unnecessary because wheat beers aren't really supposed to be clear, so why bother....

I dunno... this all seems to fly in the face of what I've heard:

a) stirring up the wort after primary fermentation... isn't it BAD to pick up dead yeast? Don't they contribute off flavours? Won't most of the live yeast still be in suspension anyway?

b) rolling the bottle before drinking? Does that mean I'll be drinking a lot of yeast and therefore suffer from some terrible stomach gas? (My wife WON'T be pleased.. :-)

If you guys could relate any advice you have for brewing wheat beers, specifically Hefeweizen... I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks,

G

[Denny Conn]

Post by G. Filicetti
Guys,
a) stirring up the wort after primary fermentation... isn't it BAD to pick up dead yeast? Don't they contribute off flavours? Won't most of the live yeast still be in suspension anyway?

There will be plenty of yeast in suspension without purposely siphoning
any along. Your fear of autolysis, if you do siphon some up, is way
overblown.

Post by G. Filicetti
b) rolling the bottle before drinking? Does that mean I'll be drinking a lot of yeast and therefore suffer from some terrible stomach gas? (My wife WON'T be pleased.. :-)

Many hefe drinkers prefer to do this...it's your beer so do what you
want.

-------->Denny

[evilpaul13]

Post by G. Filicetti
Guys,
I'd like a quick sanity check re: the Hefeweizen I plan on brewing this
weekend. (PS.. this is the first brew I will be in control of as opposed to
being a spectator of).
I'm using a Wheat Beer yeast (liquid, similar to WyEast 3068), and I was told
that the yeast is what holds all the banana and cloves flavour. Because of
this fact, it was recommended that I gently stir the wort before I rack to
the bottling bucket so that I'm picking up a good part of the yeast instead
of leaving it behind like you normally would. Also, it was recommended that
before drinking a bottle of this beer, that I roll the bottle so as to kick
up the yeast because I want to drink the yeast and get the banana and cloves
flavour. Also, secondary fermatation was deemed unnecessary because wheat
beers aren't really supposed to be clear, so why bother....
a) stirring up the wort after primary fermentation... isn't it BAD to pick up
dead yeast? Don't they contribute off flavours? Won't most of the live yeast
still be in suspension anyway?
b) rolling the bottle before drinking? Does that mean I'll be drinking a lot
of yeast and therefore suffer from some terrible stomach gas? (My wife WON'T
be
pleased.. :-)
If you guys could relate any advice you have for brewing wheat beers,
specifically Hefeweizen... I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks,
G

I've made two Hefeweizens, so hopefully I'm not too far off:
1) Don't stir the primary trub back into the beer. It'd probably cause
you to end up with fluffy gunk in your bottles, and your beer won't be
clear after two weeks with Wheat beer yeast anyway.

2) The banana and clove flavors come from chemicals produced by the
yeast. Esters (banana, bubble gum, etc). And phenols (clove, vanilla,
etc). Those flavors aren't from tasting the wheat beer yeast, they are
created by it.

3) Stirring the yeast left in the bottle is to add mouthfeel to the
beer. In my experience you will experience moderate gassiness from
doing this. And, IMHO, it's not really necessary. There's still enough
yeast in suspension for me weeks after the fermentation has finished.

[Tom M]

Post by evilpaul13
beer. In my experience you will experience moderate gassiness from
doing this.

Thats a euphemistic way of saying it....

G, think of the dinner table scene in 'The Nutty Professor' and that will
get
you close.

It just doesn't seem healthy to consume that much yeast.

[evilpaul13]

Post by Tom M

Post by evilpaul13
beer. In my experience you will experience moderate gassiness from
doing this.

Thats a euphemistic way of saying it....
G, think of the dinner table scene in 'The Nutty Professor' and that will
get
you close.
It just doesn't seem healthy to consume that much yeast.

I only did it for one beer, and didn't really care for it. So, I was
basically fine. If you tried it with 4 or 5....well that'd probably be
pretty gross.

drugstore.com has info on the stuff (it's sold as a supplement), and
it looks ok to take.

[Bill Riel]

In article <***@posting.google.com>, evilpaul13
@hotmail.com says...

Post by evilpaul13

Post by Tom M

Post by evilpaul13
beer. In my experience you will experience moderate gassiness from
doing this.

Thats a euphemistic way of saying it....
G, think of the dinner table scene in 'The Nutty Professor' and that will
get
you close.
It just doesn't seem healthy to consume that much yeast.

I only did it for one beer, and didn't really care for it. So, I was
basically fine. If you tried it with 4 or 5....well that'd probably be
pretty gross.
drugstore.com has info on the stuff (it's sold as a supplement), and
it looks ok to take.

I believe it is good for you, just not your social life!

Bill

[evilpaul13]

Post by Bill Riel
@hotmail.com says...

Post by evilpaul13

Post by Tom M

Post by evilpaul13
beer. In my experience you will experience moderate gassiness from
doing this.

Thats a euphemistic way of saying it....
G, think of the dinner table scene in 'The Nutty Professor' and that will
get
you close.
It just doesn't seem healthy to consume that much yeast.

I only did it for one beer, and didn't really care for it. So, I was
basically fine. If you tried it with 4 or 5....well that'd probably be
pretty gross.
drugstore.com has info on the stuff (it's sold as a supplement), and
it looks ok to take.

I believe it is good for you, just not your social life!
Bill

I'm more concerned about stress and social ineptness' affect on my
long term health than lack of chromium and proteins. ;-)

[SWalters]

Post by G. Filicetti
a) stirring up the wort after primary fermentation... isn't it BAD to
pick up dead yeast? Don't they contribute off flavours? Won't most of
the live yeast still be in suspension anyway?

You don't want to pull anything left behind in the fermenter. The flavor
from the yeast will be in the beer without pulling any noticable extra from
the carboy/bucket.

Post by G. Filicetti
b) rolling the bottle before drinking? Does that mean I'll be drinking
a lot of yeast and therefore suffer from some terrible stomach gas?
(My wife WON'T be pleased.. :-)

I've noticed some places doing this but I still don't see a point. I think
the beer will taste cleaner without purposely drinking the yeast.

[Kevin Wagner]

I'm fairly new, and posted the same questions. Here is my experience.
I've made two Hefeweizens, an extract brew using Wyeast 3068 and my
first all-grain beer using White Labs WLP320.

I racked the 3068 from primary to secondary and to bottle as clear as
possible. There was a thin layer of yeast in the bottles, but much
less than you'd find in, say, a Schneider Weizen. I thought there
should have been more.

For the WLP320, I racked clear from primary to secondary, but stirred
the secondary before bottling. I preferred the quantity of yeast in
the bottle with this batch. It wasn't much more, but closer to what I
see in commercial examples of the style.

Personally, I wouldn't stir and bottle from the primary, though.

As for mixing yeast in or leaving it in the bottle, that's personal
preference.

-K

Post by G. Filicetti
Guys,
I'd like a quick sanity check re: the Hefeweizen I plan on brewing this weekend. (PS.. this is the first brew I will be in control of as opposed to being a spectator of).
I'm using a Wheat Beer yeast (liquid, similar to WyEast 3068), and I

was told that the yeast is what holds all the banana and cloves
flavour. Because of this fact, it was recommended that I gently stir
the wort before I rack to the bottling bucket so that I'm picking up a
good part of the yeast instead of leaving it behind like you normally
would. Also, it was recommended that before drinking a bottle of this
beer, that I roll the bottle so as to kick up the yeast because I want
to drink the yeast and get the banana and cloves flavour. Also,
secondary fermatation was deemed unnecessary because wheat beers
aren't really supposed to be clear, so why bother....

Post by G. Filicetti
a) stirring up the wort after primary fermentation... isn't it BAD to pick up dead yeast? Don't they contribute off flavours? Won't most of the live yeast still be in suspension anyway?
b) rolling the bottle before drinking? Does that mean I'll be drinking a lot of yeast and therefore suffer from some terrible stomach gas? (My wife WON'T be pleased.. :-)
If you guys could relate any advice you have for brewing wheat beers, specifically Hefeweizen... I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks,
G

[G. Filicetti]

Post by Kevin Wagner
I racked the 3068 from primary to secondary and to bottle as clear as
possible. There was a thin layer of yeast in the bottles, but much
less than you'd find in, say, a Schneider Weizen. I thought there
should have been more.

<snip>

Post by Kevin Wagner
Personally, I wouldn't stir and bottle from the primary, though.

So you did a secondary fermentation for both of your Hefe's? I wasn't planning on doing a secondary fermentation as I was told that "since you're not going for clarification, a secondary fermentation isn't really necessary".

What do you guys think? I own a carboy, so it wouldn't be a big deal, just don't wanna waste my time if it's not really necessary.

BTW.. I know you COULD do any beer with our without secondary fermentation, but I'm wondering if someone can recommend the best approach for a Hefe.

G

[SW]

Post by G. Filicetti
BTW.. I know you COULD do any beer with our without secondary
fermentation, but I'm wondering if someone can recommend the best
approach for a Hefe.

If you don't have a lot of trub I would just leave it in the primary for 7-
10 days or (more so) when you gravity hasn't changed for 2-3 days straight.

[Kevin Wagner]

If you decide to stir before bottling, I would do a 5 or 7 day
secondary. That will get the beer off the break material, hop-leaf,
cat hair and other trub you don't want in your bottles. After a few
days in secondary, there will be plenty of nice, clean yeast waiting
for you to stir in.

If you're not going to stir, I suppose a secondary isn't really
needed.

-K

Post by G. Filicetti

Post by Kevin Wagner
I racked the 3068 from primary to secondary and to bottle as clear as
possible. There was a thin layer of yeast in the bottles, but much
less than you'd find in, say, a Schneider Weizen. I thought there
should have been more.

<snip>

Post by Kevin Wagner
Personally, I wouldn't stir and bottle from the primary, though.

So you did a secondary fermentation for both of your Hefe's? I wasn't planning on doing a secondary fermentation as I was told that "since you're not going for clarification, a secondary fermentation isn't really necessary".
What do you guys think? I own a carboy, so it wouldn't be a big deal, just don't wanna waste my time if it's not really necessary.
BTW.. I know you COULD do any beer with our without secondary fermentation, but I'm wondering if someone can recommend the best approach for a Hefe.
G

[Kevin Craig]

Post by G. Filicetti
b) rolling the bottle before drinking? Does that mean I'll be drinking a lot
of yeast and therefore suffer from some terrible stomach gas? (My wife WON'T
be pleased.. :-)
If you guys could relate any advice you have for brewing wheat beers,
specifically Hefeweizen... I'd really appreciate it.

I'm weighing in as a total newbie here, since I've just subscribed to
the brewing newsgroups in order to learn. I don't know a thing about
brewing hefeweizen, but I know a lot about drinking it!

Hefeweizen is my ultimate goal when I do start brewing. I fell in love
with Maisel's hefeweizen during my three years in Germany, and hefe in
general is my favorite beer (I don't mind a kristalweizen now and then,
but the hefe is *so* much more flavorful).

My experience in Germany was that adding the yeast was standard; only
the rare individual asked for no yeast (and if you're not having yeast,
you might as well have kristal; add a slice of lemon). There's an art
to pouring a hefe, and it begins with the proper glass.

A weizen glass looks like an elongated Coca-Cola soda shop glass. It
has to be sized for the bottle (usually 0.5 liter), since you'll be
pouring the entire thing.

Start with a totally clean glass for each pour. Rinse the inside of the
glass with water (very important for a smooth pour). Don't dry it; you
need the film of water.

You can *very* gently, very slowly pour down the side of the glass,
being very careful to have almost zero foam. When the bottle is almost
empty (from 1/4-1/2" of beer left), give it a swirl to mix the yeast,
then top up the glass. You'll get a beautiful dark swirl of cloudiness,
and all of your foam (about 1 to 1-1/2" of head) should come at this
stage.

If you miscalculated a bit and have a bottle full of foam, lay the
bottle on its side, perhaps giving it a roll now and then. Let the suds
settle, and top off your glass.

Or, you take a deep breath and go for an authentic pour. Again,
starting with a completely clean and freshly rinsed weizen glass,
invert the glass over the bottle. Now invert them both again, holding
the glass up at about a 45 degree angle.

The beer naturally starts flowing; the trick is to keep the upper edge
of the bottle lip just out of the beer, to allow a smooth flow of air
and avoid gurgling. Keep withdrawing the bottle as the glass fills, and
be sure to reserve enough beer in the bottle for that all-important
yeast swirl.

It's easier to do than to describe, but it does take some practice. A
hefe has a very thick head, and if there's anything in the glass to act
as a bubble seed, it will foam like there's no tomorrow.

Hefeweizen is a conversation beer; it takes a good 45 minutes to finish
one, and it's good to the last drop.

Now... on to more reading and learning from the people who actually
know how to make it!

Kevin