Brew kettles, which one?

[Joerg]

Folks,

My pot is small. It's the usual kit deal and I can do partial boils up
to 3-3/4 gallons if I watch the pot like a hawk. Carrying it down some
stairs and paths to the pool is always a white-knuckle event and
Thursday I splashed a spritz of hot wort on my legs. Ouch, ouch. In the
pool it sinks like an overfilled oil tanker to almost where it wants to
become a submarine.

Long story short I need a bigger pot. Ideally induction-burner-ready so
the stainless steel should have some magnetic properties. However, I do
not want to spend a fortune for a Blichmann pot.

Not sure about volume and maybe someone can chime in about that as well.
I want it to be BIAB-suitable with 5-gallon batches as a result. Since I
keep the lid on partially I should get away with 6-1/2 gallon pre-boil.
So I figured an 8-gallon pot or 40-quart could be enough. Or does it
really have to be 10-gallon?

Does anyone know Concord Kettles and are their S-series pots?

http://www.concordkettles.com/collections/frontpage/products/s-series-stainless-steel-brew-kettle-w-domed-lid-avail-in-20-180-qt

They also have a cheaper series with thinner steel.

A curiosity question: Can the fast cooling be skipped if the lid was on
very tight or maybe seal it with heat-resistant tape or something, then
left to cool off overnight? Australians fill the hot wort into plastic
containers, squeeze the air out, tighten the lid and leave it overnight.
What if the air was hot enough and then sealed in along with the wort?

[D Ash]

Post by Joerg
Folks,
My pot is small. It's the usual kit deal and I can do partial boils up
to 3-3/4 gallons if I watch the pot like a hawk. Carrying it down some
stairs and paths to the pool is always a white-knuckle event and
Thursday I splashed a spritz of hot wort on my legs. Ouch, ouch. In
the pool it sinks like an overfilled oil tanker to almost where it
wants to become a submarine.
Long story short I need a bigger pot. Ideally induction-burner-ready
so the stainless steel should have some magnetic properties. However,
I do not want to spend a fortune for a Blichmann pot.
Not sure about volume and maybe someone can chime in about that as
well. I want it to be BIAB-suitable with 5-gallon batches as a result.
Since I keep the lid on partially I should get away with 6-1/2 gallon
pre-boil. So I figured an 8-gallon pot or 40-quart could be enough. Or
does it really have to be 10-gallon?
Does anyone know Concord Kettles and are their S-series pots?
http://www.concordkettles.com/collections/frontpage/products/s-series-

s

Post by Joerg
tainless-steel-brew-kettle-w-domed-lid-avail-in-20-180-qt
They also have a cheaper series with thinner steel.
A curiosity question: Can the fast cooling be skipped if the lid was
on very tight or maybe seal it with heat-resistant tape or something,
then left to cool off overnight? Australians fill the hot wort into
plastic containers, squeeze the air out, tighten the lid and leave it
overnight. What if the air was hot enough and then sealed in along
with the wort?

Somewhere in your area there ought to be at least one used restaurant
equipment reseller. This is an excellent way to acquire large kettles
that have been well-cared-for and will not set the brewer's budget back
as does new.

D Ash

[Tom Biasi]

Post by Joerg
Folks,
My pot is small. It's the usual kit deal and I can do partial boils up
to 3-3/4 gallons if I watch the pot like a hawk. Carrying it down some
stairs and paths to the pool is always a white-knuckle event and
Thursday I splashed a spritz of hot wort on my legs. Ouch, ouch. In the
pool it sinks like an overfilled oil tanker to almost where it wants to
become a submarine.
Long story short I need a bigger pot. Ideally induction-burner-ready so
the stainless steel should have some magnetic properties. However, I do
not want to spend a fortune for a Blichmann pot.
Not sure about volume and maybe someone can chime in about that as well.
I want it to be BIAB-suitable with 5-gallon batches as a result. Since I
keep the lid on partially I should get away with 6-1/2 gallon pre-boil.
So I figured an 8-gallon pot or 40-quart could be enough. Or does it
really have to be 10-gallon?
Does anyone know Concord Kettles and are their S-series pots?
http://www.concordkettles.com/collections/frontpage/products/s-series-stainless-steel-brew-kettle-w-domed-lid-avail-in-20-180-qt
They also have a cheaper series with thinner steel.
A curiosity question: Can the fast cooling be skipped if the lid was on
very tight or maybe seal it with heat-resistant tape or something, then
left to cool off overnight? Australians fill the hot wort into plastic
containers, squeeze the air out, tighten the lid and leave it overnight.
What if the air was hot enough and then sealed in along with the wort?

The induction burner is going to limit your choices and increase your
cost. If you could do with a heavy duty aluminum you could find large
pots in the New England area they refer to as lobster pots.

[Joerg]

Post by Tom Biasi

Post by Joerg
Folks,
My pot is small. It's the usual kit deal and I can do partial boils up
to 3-3/4 gallons if I watch the pot like a hawk. Carrying it down some
stairs and paths to the pool is always a white-knuckle event and
Thursday I splashed a spritz of hot wort on my legs. Ouch, ouch. In the
pool it sinks like an overfilled oil tanker to almost where it wants to
become a submarine.
Long story short I need a bigger pot. Ideally induction-burner-ready so
the stainless steel should have some magnetic properties. However, I do
not want to spend a fortune for a Blichmann pot.
Not sure about volume and maybe someone can chime in about that as well.
I want it to be BIAB-suitable with 5-gallon batches as a result. Since I
keep the lid on partially I should get away with 6-1/2 gallon pre-boil.
So I figured an 8-gallon pot or 40-quart could be enough. Or does it
really have to be 10-gallon?
Does anyone know Concord Kettles and are their S-series pots?
http://www.concordkettles.com/collections/frontpage/products/s-series-stainless-steel-brew-kettle-w-domed-lid-avail-in-20-180-qt
They also have a cheaper series with thinner steel.
A curiosity question: Can the fast cooling be skipped if the lid was on
very tight or maybe seal it with heat-resistant tape or something, then
left to cool off overnight? Australians fill the hot wort into plastic
containers, squeeze the air out, tighten the lid and leave it overnight.
What if the air was hot enough and then sealed in along with the wort?

The induction burner is going to limit your choices and increase your
cost.

It sure does but so would be the purchase of a European 230V electric
burner, mainly because of shipping. Running a 240V line would also be
pricey because we have panels with the expensive and nearly unobtainable
Zinsco breakers and I'd need to add two of those.

Post by Tom Biasi
If you could do with a heavy duty aluminum you could find large
pots in the New England area they refer to as lobster pots.

I am way over at the other coast though. Is aluminum safe for beer? No
off-flavors?

Long term I'll have to think about how I can streamline the whole
process and minimize the need to lift stuff. My lower back is worn and
won't get better with age. This means I'll have to brew downstairs where
currently there is no range, no 240V outlet and a guest bath with very
little space (but that space has to do). Full volume boils in the
kitchen upstairs just aren't be possible, too risky.

[Tom Biasi]

Post by Joerg

Post by Tom Biasi

Post by Joerg
Folks,
My pot is small. It's the usual kit deal and I can do partial boils up
to 3-3/4 gallons if I watch the pot like a hawk. Carrying it down some
stairs and paths to the pool is always a white-knuckle event and
Thursday I splashed a spritz of hot wort on my legs. Ouch, ouch. In the
pool it sinks like an overfilled oil tanker to almost where it wants to
become a submarine.
Long story short I need a bigger pot. Ideally induction-burner-ready so
the stainless steel should have some magnetic properties. However, I do
not want to spend a fortune for a Blichmann pot.
Not sure about volume and maybe someone can chime in about that as well.
I want it to be BIAB-suitable with 5-gallon batches as a result. Since I
keep the lid on partially I should get away with 6-1/2 gallon pre-boil.
So I figured an 8-gallon pot or 40-quart could be enough. Or does it
really have to be 10-gallon?
Does anyone know Concord Kettles and are their S-series pots?
http://www.concordkettles.com/collections/frontpage/products/s-series-stainless-steel-brew-kettle-w-domed-lid-avail-in-20-180-qt
They also have a cheaper series with thinner steel.
A curiosity question: Can the fast cooling be skipped if the lid was on
very tight or maybe seal it with heat-resistant tape or something, then
left to cool off overnight? Australians fill the hot wort into plastic
containers, squeeze the air out, tighten the lid and leave it overnight.
What if the air was hot enough and then sealed in along with the wort?

The induction burner is going to limit your choices and increase your
cost.

It sure does but so would be the purchase of a European 230V electric
burner, mainly because of shipping. Running a 240V line would also be
pricey because we have panels with the expensive and nearly unobtainable
Zinsco breakers and I'd need to add two of those.

Post by Tom Biasi
If you could do with a heavy duty aluminum you could find large
pots in the New England area they refer to as lobster pots.

I am way over at the other coast though. Is aluminum safe for beer? No
off-flavors?
Long term I'll have to think about how I can streamline the whole
process and minimize the need to lift stuff. My lower back is worn and
won't get better with age. This means I'll have to brew downstairs where
currently there is no range, no 240V outlet and a guest bath with very
little space (but that space has to do). Full volume boils in the
kitchen upstairs just aren't be possible, too risky.

I have used aluminum to brew for quite sometime and have not experienced
any off flavors. The trick is to leave the oxidation. Do not scrub them
shiny.
If you have any room outside you could obtain a turkey fryer burner and
pot for a reasonable price. The pot would be too small for me but you
may want to check it out.

[Joerg]

Post by Tom Biasi

Post by Joerg

Post by Tom Biasi

Post by Joerg
Folks,
My pot is small. It's the usual kit deal and I can do partial boils up
to 3-3/4 gallons if I watch the pot like a hawk. Carrying it down some
stairs and paths to the pool is always a white-knuckle event and
Thursday I splashed a spritz of hot wort on my legs. Ouch, ouch. In the
pool it sinks like an overfilled oil tanker to almost where it wants to
become a submarine.
Long story short I need a bigger pot. Ideally induction-burner-ready so
the stainless steel should have some magnetic properties. However, I do
not want to spend a fortune for a Blichmann pot.
Not sure about volume and maybe someone can chime in about that as well.
I want it to be BIAB-suitable with 5-gallon batches as a result. Since I
keep the lid on partially I should get away with 6-1/2 gallon pre-boil.
So I figured an 8-gallon pot or 40-quart could be enough. Or does it
really have to be 10-gallon?
Does anyone know Concord Kettles and are their S-series pots?
http://www.concordkettles.com/collections/frontpage/products/s-series-stainless-steel-brew-kettle-w-domed-lid-avail-in-20-180-qt
They also have a cheaper series with thinner steel.
A curiosity question: Can the fast cooling be skipped if the lid was on
very tight or maybe seal it with heat-resistant tape or something, then
left to cool off overnight? Australians fill the hot wort into plastic
containers, squeeze the air out, tighten the lid and leave it overnight.
What if the air was hot enough and then sealed in along with the wort?

The induction burner is going to limit your choices and increase your
cost.

It sure does but so would be the purchase of a European 230V electric
burner, mainly because of shipping. Running a 240V line would also be
pricey because we have panels with the expensive and nearly unobtainable
Zinsco breakers and I'd need to add two of those.

Post by Tom Biasi
If you could do with a heavy duty aluminum you could find large
pots in the New England area they refer to as lobster pots.

I am way over at the other coast though. Is aluminum safe for beer? No
off-flavors?
Long term I'll have to think about how I can streamline the whole
process and minimize the need to lift stuff. My lower back is worn and
won't get better with age. This means I'll have to brew downstairs where
currently there is no range, no 240V outlet and a guest bath with very
little space (but that space has to do). Full volume boils in the
kitchen upstairs just aren't be possible, too risky.

I have used aluminum to brew for quite sometime and have not experienced
any off flavors. The trick is to leave the oxidation. Do not scrub them
shiny.

That seems to be one of the downsides. I clean everything with PBW which
works great but according to comments I found on the web that should not
be used on aluminum. Like the Aug-8, 2012 post here:

http://beersmith.com/blog/2010/08/17/aluminum-vs-stainless-best-beer-brewing-pots/

Aluminum also won't work on induction burners.

Post by Tom Biasi
If you have any room outside you could obtain a turkey fryer burner and
pot for a reasonable price. The pot would be too small for me but you
may want to check it out.

Yes, got to watch the sales after Thanksgiving. Also the thrift stores
where those pots land after Joe Sixpack made a royal mess and his wife
is fuming. I remember one guy out here whose fryer tipped over in the
driveway and the hot oil distributed itself through the drainage system.

I like to stay away from propane. It requires storing and schlepping
heavy propane bottles. I'd rather just plug in. That would either mean
240V and a more powerful European electric burner downstairs or 120V
(which is already there) and an induction burner, hoping the efficiency
gains from induction make up for the fact that it won't be more than 1500W.

I am new to all this but I think some induction burners can sense the
pot temperature so I could turn it on almost after getting out of bed
and set it to not heat any further once the steeping temperature has
been reached. Then the only real time loss is getting from there to a
boil later but that's where my wireless meat thermometer comes in. For
downstairs use I'd have to increase its range but since I am an
electronics guy that shouldn't be a problem.

[Derek J Decker]

On Mon, 07 Nov 2016 07:27:08 -0800, Joerg wrote:

<stuff snipped>

Post by Joerg
I am new to all this but I think some induction burners can sense the
pot temperature so I could turn it on almost after getting out of bed
and set it to not heat any further once the steeping temperature has
been reached. Then the only real time loss is getting from there to a
boil later but that's where my wireless meat thermometer comes in. For
downstairs use I'd have to increase its range but since I am an
electronics guy that shouldn't be a problem.

Induction burners generally sense the temperature of the bottom of the
pot - this may or may not strongly correlate with the temp of the fluid
within, especially if there isn't anything stirring it. Nevertheless, I
have been looking for a burner that has temperatures settable to the
degree - I have only seen them in increments of 10 degrees.

So you could get _close_ to your desired steeping temp, and bring it up
the last few degrees manually. Or decide to not be so fussy.

Here in my miniature brewing process, I use a sous vide controller to
control mash temp - just set it and walk away. That's a little pricey,
but I get to cook with it, too, so it's ok.

-Derek

[Joerg]

Post by Derek J Decker
<stuff snipped>

Post by Joerg
I am new to all this but I think some induction burners can sense the
pot temperature so I could turn it on almost after getting out of bed
and set it to not heat any further once the steeping temperature has
been reached. Then the only real time loss is getting from there to a
boil later but that's where my wireless meat thermometer comes in. For
downstairs use I'd have to increase its range but since I am an
electronics guy that shouldn't be a problem.

Induction burners generally sense the temperature of the bottom of the
pot - this may or may not strongly correlate with the temp of the fluid
within, especially if there isn't anything stirring it. Nevertheless, I
have been looking for a burner that has temperatures settable to the
degree - I have only seen them in increments of 10 degrees.

Most that I saw are worse, 30 degree increments. But one of the setings
is usually 150F which is at least close.

Post by Derek J Decker
So you could get _close_ to your desired steeping temp, and bring it up
the last few degrees manually. Or decide to not be so fussy.
Here in my miniature brewing process, I use a sous vide controller to
control mash temp - just set it and walk away. That's a little pricey,
but I get to cook with it, too, so it's ok.

If really necessary I could whip up something with electronics. Or go
all fancy and let an old laptop, an interface and SCADA software do the
job. I have this interface along with the Lite edition of the Azeotech
software:

https://labjack.com/products/u3
http://azeotech.com/j/index.php

Driving a big relay with it is a challenge but possible.

[Derek J Decker]

On Mon, 07 Nov 2016 09:40:58 -0800, Joerg wrote:

<snip>

Post by Joerg
https://labjack.com/products/u3
http://azeotech.com/j/index.php
Driving a big relay with it is a challenge but possible.

As you're an electronics guy (I'm a retired industrial engineer, mostly
with PLCs) I'd point out here that Chinese self-tuning bang-bang PID
controllers are super cheap on ebay, and often come in kits with
appropriate thermocouples, big SSRs, heatsinks, etc. All you need is a
box and some wires and you're set.

I have one on my electric smoker, works a champ.

- Derek

[Joerg]

Post by Derek J Decker
<snip>

Post by Joerg
https://labjack.com/products/u3
http://azeotech.com/j/index.php
Driving a big relay with it is a challenge but possible.

As you're an electronics guy (I'm a retired industrial engineer, mostly
with PLCs) I'd point out here that Chinese self-tuning bang-bang PID
controllers are super cheap on ebay, and often come in kits with
appropriate thermocouples, big SSRs, heatsinks, etc. All you need is a
box and some wires and you're set.
I have one on my electric smoker, works a champ.

I have a Willhi controller on my fermenting fridge and it cost $25. Not
true PID but I believe they now make PID versions for a few Dollars
more. It even has a wide range supply which helps greatly in my case
because the fridge is a 60 year old Bosch for 230V. My wife lets me have
it on the promise that I'll vacate it for the Turkey before Thanksgiving
and for larger parties.

Can't wait until retirement. Then I'll have time to build my own
induction cooktops and stuff like that.

[Scott Alfter]

Post by Tom Biasi
If you have any room outside you could obtain a turkey fryer burner and
pot for a reasonable price. The pot would be too small for me but you
may want to check it out.

...and you can probably pick up one or two of them really cheap in just a
few weeks, after Thanksgiving.

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

[Howard .]

Post by Joerg
Long term I'll have to think about how I can streamline the whole
process and minimize the need to lift stuff. My lower back is worn and
won't get better with age. This means I'll have to brew downstairs
where currently there is no range, no 240V outlet and a guest bath
with very little space (but that space has to do). Full volume boils
in the kitchen upstairs just aren't be possible, too risky.

Here's an idea just brainstorming -- if you need to get wort downstairs,
add a spigot to the kettle and run a long length of tubing to a fermenter.
If you use an immersion chiller you can get everything close to room temp
before you start the transfer.

To be honest, a simpler method would be to just use the spigot to transfer
to a smaller pot and just make several trips if you're fermenting
downstairs. Or just boil in two or three pots and limit what you're
carrying to a fraction of a full pot.

[Joerg]

Post by Howard .

Post by Joerg
Long term I'll have to think about how I can streamline the whole
process and minimize the need to lift stuff. My lower back is worn and
won't get better with age. This means I'll have to brew downstairs
where currently there is no range, no 240V outlet and a guest bath
with very little space (but that space has to do). Full volume boils
in the kitchen upstairs just aren't be possible, too risky.

Here's an idea just brainstorming -- if you need to get wort downstairs,
add a spigot to the kettle and run a long length of tubing to a fermenter.
If you use an immersion chiller you can get everything close to room temp
before you start the transfer.

That is a good idea. Drilling through the ceiling I should be able to
get there with 20ft. The immersion chiller is not so nice because I
could only let the water drain away into the sink which isn't considered
cool anymore in California after the last 4-year drought.

I am a brewing rookie but was always wondering why this fast cooldown.
Many Australians just ferry the hot wort into a cube, press the air out,
close the lid tightly and let that sit overnight. What if the wort would
just be left in the kettle overnight and the lid sealed with some heat
resistant plastic wrap to avoid ingress of contaminants? Or in a plastic
fermenter bucket but with a little CO2 hissed into the vacant top 1-1/2
gallon space?

Post by Howard .
To be honest, a simpler method would be to just use the spigot to transfer
to a smaller pot and just make several trips if you're fermenting
downstairs. Or just boil in two or three pots and limit what you're
carrying to a fraction of a full pot.

Two pots is what I thought about, I could just buy another 5-gallon pot
like the one I already have. However, it makes things complicated. Got
to watch two pots, have to split all ingredients 50/50. I'd have to find
a second wireless meat thermometer that can operate together with the
current one without interfering. Can be done though, or I hook two
probes to a computer that then sends the temp info to my office PC. I
currently use that method to be able to do some work while heating stuff.

[baloonon]

Post by Joerg
I am a brewing rookie but was always wondering why this fast cooldown.
Many Australians just ferry the hot wort into a cube, press the air
out, close the lid tightly and let that sit overnight. What if the
wort would just be left in the kettle overnight and the lid sealed
with some heat resistant plastic wrap to avoid ingress of
contaminants? Or in a plastic fermenter bucket but with a little CO2
hissed into the vacant top 1-1/2 gallon space?

What you can do is aim for a somewhat lower final volume. You can let
the kettle cool off to 150F or so with a lid on it, which probably takes
an hour or two while you clean up, and then top off with a gallon of
cold water from the fridge. Some people rig up swamp coolers to speed
things up with a wet towel and a fan. To prevent bugs you can boil the
additional water the day before and cool it overnight. Then stick the
fermenter in the fridge and/or put some ice packs on it until it's at
pitching temp.

The big complication with no chill methods is they tend to throw off the
hopping, sometimes badly in cases of recipes with lots of hops and lots
of cooldown time. There are recipes to compensate, or you can figure
out a way to fish or strain out the hops before filling the fermenter.

Post by Joerg
Two pots is what I thought about, I could just buy another 5-gallon
pot like the one I already have. However, it makes things complicated.
Got to watch two pots, have to split all ingredients 50/50. I'd have
to find a second wireless meat thermometer that can operate together
with the current one without interfering. Can be done though, or I
hook two probes to a computer that then sends the temp info to my
office PC. I currently use that method to be able to do some work
while heating stuff.

You don't have to stress about splitting stuff all that equally when
you're combining it all at the end as long as you're in the general
ballpark. Timing and temps for one pot should be pretty much the same
assuming the water is about the same. Having one more pound of malt or
extract in one pot versus another isn't going to make much difference.
If one boils for 60 minutes and one takes five minutes longer to come to
a boil, if you put all the hops in one pot and none in the other, it
barely makes a difference in the combined product. That's assuming that
both burners are roughly the same -- if one is vastly less powerful than
the other, then you might have an issue.

If you brew in a bag and you split between two kettles you need to be a
bit more careful at mash time, but even then if one sits at 152 and one
is at 150, it's not a big deal.

[Joerg]

Post by baloonon

Post by Joerg
I am a brewing rookie but was always wondering why this fast cooldown.
Many Australians just ferry the hot wort into a cube, press the air
out, close the lid tightly and let that sit overnight. What if the
wort would just be left in the kettle overnight and the lid sealed
with some heat resistant plastic wrap to avoid ingress of
contaminants? Or in a plastic fermenter bucket but with a little CO2
hissed into the vacant top 1-1/2 gallon space?

What you can do is aim for a somewhat lower final volume. You can let
the kettle cool off to 150F or so with a lid on it, which probably takes
an hour or two while you clean up, and then top off with a gallon of
cold water from the fridge. Some people rig up swamp coolers to speed
things up with a wet towel and a fan. To prevent bugs you can boil the
additional water the day before and cool it overnight. Then stick the
fermenter in the fridge and/or put some ice packs on it until it's at
pitching temp.
The big complication with no chill methods is they tend to throw off the
hopping, sometimes badly in cases of recipes with lots of hops and lots
of cooldown time. There are recipes to compensate, or you can figure
out a way to fish or strain out the hops before filling the fermenter.

Oh, thanks, I didn't know about it messing with the hop flavors. Then I
better not do that. Currently I am working with pre-packaged recipes
from the brewing suppliers although eventually I want to graduate into
real brewing from scratch, sans third-party recipe.

Post by baloonon

Post by Joerg
Two pots is what I thought about, I could just buy another 5-gallon
pot like the one I already have. However, it makes things complicated.
Got to watch two pots, have to split all ingredients 50/50. I'd have
to find a second wireless meat thermometer that can operate together
with the current one without interfering. Can be done though, or I
hook two probes to a computer that then sends the temp info to my
office PC. I currently use that method to be able to do some work
while heating stuff.

You don't have to stress about splitting stuff all that equally when
you're combining it all at the end as long as you're in the general
ballpark. Timing and temps for one pot should be pretty much the same
assuming the water is about the same. Having one more pound of malt or
extract in one pot versus another isn't going to make much difference.
If one boils for 60 minutes and one takes five minutes longer to come to
a boil, if you put all the hops in one pot and none in the other, it
barely makes a difference in the combined product. That's assuming that
both burners are roughly the same -- if one is vastly less powerful than
the other, then you might have an issue.

Good points. Then it certainly becomes an option. If one pot gets to a
boil later I can add the bittering hops to both when they are both at boil.

The burners are different but same size. One is thermostat controlled
while the other only has the usual on-off power setting. I would no
longer be able to move the pot off the burner when stirring in extract
though because then both big burners would be occupied. However, with
the spiral kind of electric burner that should be ok if turned off.

Post by baloonon
If you brew in a bag and you split between two kettles you need to be a
bit more careful at mash time, but even then if one sits at 152 and one
is at 150, it's not a big deal.

For sure I'd need two thermometers because they take a while to read
properly. I had one Pale Ale run away a bit and it became unusually dark
but still tastes good.

[Whirled Peas]

On 11/07/2016 07:40 AM, Joerg wrote:
(snip)

Post by Joerg
I am a brewing rookie but was always wondering why this fast cooldown.
Many Australians just ferry the hot wort into a cube, press the air out,
close the lid tightly and let that sit overnight. What if the wort would
just be left in the kettle overnight and the lid sealed with some heat
resistant plastic wrap to avoid ingress of contaminants? Or in a plastic
fermenter bucket but with a little CO2 hissed into the vacant top 1-1/2
gallon space?
(snip)

Haven't seen any answers to "why cool fast?", so here's a beginning. It
all has to do with clarity of the beer. Have you ever seen a
well-chilled homebrew that looks cloudy and yeasty? That's called cold
break. It comes from leftover tannins and proteins from the original
mash. One way to prevent this haze is to chill the wort quickly, forcing
the tannins and proteins to clump together. Left alone, they will
eventually settle out, leaving you with clear beer. If left to cool
slowly, the proteins don't clump and therefor don't settle out.

There are things you can do to make clear beer. Finings, protein rest,
etc. Look at this article from Brew Your Own magazine:

<http://byo.com/malt/item/486-conquer-chill-haze>

[Joerg]

Post by Whirled Peas
(snip)

Post by Joerg
I am a brewing rookie but was always wondering why this fast cooldown.
Many Australians just ferry the hot wort into a cube, press the air out,
close the lid tightly and let that sit overnight. What if the wort would
just be left in the kettle overnight and the lid sealed with some heat
resistant plastic wrap to avoid ingress of contaminants? Or in a plastic
fermenter bucket but with a little CO2 hissed into the vacant top 1-1/2
gallon space?
(snip)

Haven't seen any answers to "why cool fast?", ...

I haven't. If this was recently then the news server I am using might
have dropped your post. I rarely does that but it happens.

Post by Whirled Peas
... so here's a beginning. It
all has to do with clarity of the beer. Have you ever seen a
well-chilled homebrew that looks cloudy and yeasty? That's called cold
break. It comes from leftover tannins and proteins from the original
mash. One way to prevent this haze is to chill the wort quickly, forcing
the tannins and proteins to clump together. Left alone, they will
eventually settle out, leaving you with clear beer. If left to cool
slowly, the proteins don't clump and therefor don't settle out.
There are things you can do to make clear beer. Finings, protein rest,
<http://byo.com/malt/item/486-conquer-chill-haze>

Thanks. I learn something new every day :-)

Didn't know it had this much effect on the clarity. Personally I like
cloudy beer but it sure is nice if one can brew a clear batch. So far I
cooled the pot by letting it float around in our pool for 20-25mins.
Some ales were cloudy, other milder beers such as a Koelsch Style and
Cream Ale I brewed were quite clear. Also the Belgian Witbeer that just
went into bottles.

But your point about clarity and Balonoon's about hop effects clearly
point towards fast cooling. Not sure how the Australians are getting
away with slow cool in a plastic cube but maybe it's just different
taste preferences.

[Scott Alfter]

Post by Joerg
It sure does but so would be the purchase of a European 230V electric
burner, mainly because of shipping. Running a 240V line would also be
pricey because we have panels with the expensive and nearly unobtainable
Zinsco breakers and I'd need to add two of those.

How about if instead of permanent wiring, you built an extension cord (of
sorts) to go from the dryer outlet to wherever you're brewing? It still
won't be cheap (25' of 10/4 SOOW set me back somewhere around $50-$60 back
in the day), but it'll be cheaper than a permanent installation...and more
flexible as to location.

Post by Joerg
I am way over at the other coast though. Is aluminum safe for beer? No
off-flavors?

Aluminum almost immediately oxidizes to the relatively inert aluminum oxide.
This will keep beer (or most food and drink, for that matter) from reacting
with it. I have a 20-gallon aluminum stockpot, purchased new from a
restaurant-supply store for maybe half (if that) of what a 10-gallon
stainless pot is likely to fetch from a homebrew-supply store. The
15-gallon batch of pale ale I made in it turned out quite well.

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

[Joerg]

Post by Scott Alfter

Post by Joerg
It sure does but so would be the purchase of a European 230V electric
burner, mainly because of shipping. Running a 240V line would also be
pricey because we have panels with the expensive and nearly unobtainable
Zinsco breakers and I'd need to add two of those.

How about if instead of permanent wiring, you built an extension cord (of
sorts) to go from the dryer outlet to wherever you're brewing? It still
won't be cheap (25' of 10/4 SOOW set me back somewhere around $50-$60 back
in the day), but it'll be cheaper than a permanent installation...and more
flexible as to location.

I found an easy way to get 240V down there without much effort. But
impossible to find >2kW burners in the US that don't cost an arm and a
leg. So I resorted to using a wide pot and two 120V 1kW burners.

Post by Scott Alfter

Post by Joerg
I am way over at the other coast though. Is aluminum safe for beer? No
off-flavors?

Aluminum almost immediately oxidizes to the relatively inert aluminum oxide.
This will keep beer (or most food and drink, for that matter) from reacting
with it. I have a 20-gallon aluminum stockpot, purchased new from a
restaurant-supply store for maybe half (if that) of what a 10-gallon
stainless pot is likely to fetch from a homebrew-supply store. The
15-gallon batch of pale ale I made in it turned out quite well.

This afternoon I scored. My wife found out that Forklift (part of
Nugget) had a sale of VMI International steamer pots going. It's
aluminum. Naturally I picked the biggest, 52-quart or 13 gallons. 30
bucks. Yeehaw!

Best of all it has a colander plate so it'll be ready to go once I start
with BIAB. This pot is a monster.

So now I'll get a 2nd Walmart 1kW burner and connect that to another
circuit. I think I need to saw off at least part of one of them on the
side but looks feasible. That't give me 2kW total for now which should
be fine. Walmart Placerville shows stock so I'll go up there tomorrow,
boil a load of water to oxydize the inside and then brew a Pale Ale on
Monday. Got to bottle a Stout first and rack a Red Ale into secondary,
to free up one of the fermenters for the Pale Ale. I hope this pot
floats in the pool just as stable as the stainless one does. If not I'll
leave it on the upper step.

I'll also have to mod the meat thermometer for more range so I can
"watch" the pot from the upstairs office for when it has reached
steeping temperature.