Using propane burners indoors

Post by s***@gmail.com
If you do not get a full burn propane heaters used inside can produce carbon monoxide. You know when you are getting a complete burn when the flame is a blue colour on the bottom and yellow and red flame on top.

I certainly would not take the chance.

baloonon

2017-11-30 02:56:14 UTC

Post by s***@gmail.com
If you do not get a full burn propane heaters used inside can produce
carbon monoxide. You know when you are getting a complete burn when
the flame is a blue colour on the bottom and yellow and red flame on
top.

I certainly would not take the chance.

Looking at Googlegroups, the original post was in 2002....

That thread had some interesting anecdotes about faulty tanks blowing up
and CO poisoning. It really seems to me that if stovetop boiling for some
reason wasn't practical, the smart solution would be to do an electric
setup, either with a prebuilt system or DIY.

It looks like all in one mash and boil systems that run on 110v are down to
around $300, and I would bet the cost plus the electricity to run it
wouldn't be that much more than a kettle, propane stove and the propane
tanks once you spread out the costs over a couple of years.

Joerg

2017-12-01 21:58:22 UTC

Post by s***@gmail.com
If you do not get a full burn propane heaters used inside can produce
carbon monoxide. You know when you are getting a complete burn when
the flame is a blue colour on the bottom and yellow and red flame on
top.

I certainly would not take the chance.

Looking at Googlegroups, the original post was in 2002....
That thread had some interesting anecdotes about faulty tanks blowing up
and CO poisoning. It really seems to me that if stovetop boiling for some
reason wasn't practical, the smart solution would be to do an electric
setup, either with a prebuilt system or DIY.
It looks like all in one mash and boil systems that run on 110v are down to
around $300, and I would bet the cost plus the electricity to run it
wouldn't be that much more than a kettle, propane stove and the propane
tanks once you spread out the costs over a couple of years.

It is cheap but takes forever. This is how I brew my beer. I got two
Walmart 1kW cooktops, placing them back to back so that the largest
available (13-gallon) tamale steamer just straddles them. They are fed
from two different circuits because in the US we mostly only have wimpy
120V/15A circuits. Still it takes a long time. 1h to get to 155F and
later another 1h to get to a boil. Then I add in the extract and getting
all this back to a boil consumes another 1/2h. Waiting for the
thermometer to get to 208F right now, for a Rye Pale Ale.

Propane would be safe down there because I have a cooking alcove in the
man cave, with its own flue. That plus a good CO detector plus an open
sliding door should work. Unfortunately the room is carpeted and there
is no water on that side so I can't use it.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

baloonon

2017-12-03 13:58:01 UTC

Post by s***@gmail.com
If you do not get a full burn propane heaters used inside can
produce carbon monoxide. You know when you are getting a complete
burn when the flame is a blue colour on the bottom and yellow and
red flame on top.

I certainly would not take the chance.

Looking at Googlegroups, the original post was in 2002....
That thread had some interesting anecdotes about faulty tanks blowing
up and CO poisoning. It really seems to me that if stovetop boiling
for some reason wasn't practical, the smart solution would be to do
an electric setup, either with a prebuilt system or DIY.
It looks like all in one mash and boil systems that run on 110v are
down to around $300, and I would bet the cost plus the electricity to
run it wouldn't be that much more than a kettle, propane stove and
the propane tanks once you spread out the costs over a couple of
years.

I'm not an expert in these things, but my understanding from reading a
bit is that an all in one system that runs on 120v is a good bit faster
than that. I'm not sure if it generates more heat or is more efficient
or what, but reported times I've seen are significantly less, something
like half the time you report. 220v systems are supposed to be a good
bit faster than that, but generally pricier.

$300 for the Brewer's Edge system is probably more than I'd want to
replace my current stovetop setup, but I could imagine the price going
down in the future or seeing a good cheap used one for sale someday that
I'd buy.

Post by Joerg
Propane would be safe down there because I have a cooking alcove in
the man cave, with its own flue. That plus a good CO detector plus an
open sliding door should work. Unfortunately the room is carpeted and
there is no water on that side so I can't use it.

I read a fair number of people nervous about propane indoors, although
something with a flue might be OK -- I know there are lots of people who
have propane for their stoves, water heaters, and other appliances,
although they are professionally installed. It's something I'd never do
myself as a DIY thing, though.

From a practical standpoint hauling the canisters seems like a pain,
you'd need to keep spares around so you don't run out of fuel partway
through, and the cost is significantly more than electricity. If there
was a professionally installed outdoor tank and piping that would be a
different story, of course, but I can't see the usual propane burner
brewing ever being something I'd do just because I don't want to deal
with the canisters. When my gas grill started rusting I got rid of it
and went back to charcoal and wood grilling because I got tired of
dealing with propane canisters.

Joerg

2017-12-03 17:28:18 UTC

Post by s***@gmail.com
If you do not get a full burn propane heaters used inside can
produce carbon monoxide. You know when you are getting a complete
burn when the flame is a blue colour on the bottom and yellow and
red flame on top.

I certainly would not take the chance.

Looking at Googlegroups, the original post was in 2002....
That thread had some interesting anecdotes about faulty tanks blowing
up and CO poisoning. It really seems to me that if stovetop boiling
for some reason wasn't practical, the smart solution would be to do
an electric setup, either with a prebuilt system or DIY.
It looks like all in one mash and boil systems that run on 110v are
down to around $300, and I would bet the cost plus the electricity to
run it wouldn't be that much more than a kettle, propane stove and
the propane tanks once you spread out the costs over a couple of
years.

I'm not an expert in these things, but my understanding from reading a
bit is that an all in one system that runs on 120v is a good bit faster
than that. I'm not sure if it generates more heat or is more efficient
or what, but reported times I've seen are significantly less, something
like half the time you report. 220v systems are supposed to be a good
bit faster than that, but generally pricier.
$300 for the Brewer's Edge system is probably more than I'd want to
replace my current stovetop setup, but I could imagine the price going
down in the future or seeing a good cheap used one for sale someday that
I'd buy.

It sure is nice:

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/BREWERS-EDGE-MASH-BOIL--P4216.aspx

Though they must have 100% effective insulation which is har to imagine.
Even then it would take 43mins to heat from 70F to 162F, nit 40mins:

http://bloglocation.com/art/water-heating-calculator-for-time-energy-power

I wish they'd keep the electronics separate on such units because I like
to give all my brewing equipment a thorough scrubbing after each use.
Due to the size that has to happen standing in the shower in keans
shorts and T-shirt in my case.

The other concern is the 1600W which is a close call for a 120V 15A
circuit. The power outlet will also become quite hot because of the
duration of this power draw. A 240V version, now that would be something.

I am still looking for a very large diameter 240V or 230V electric
burner that has >3000W. The ones I could get from Europe are too small
in diameter and then the thin aluminum bottom of my tamale steamer
turned brew kettle would bend.

You could install it and then have a pro check it.

Post by baloonon
From a practical standpoint hauling the canisters seems like a pain,
you'd need to keep spares around so you don't run out of fuel partway
through, and the cost is significantly more than electricity. If there
was a professionally installed outdoor tank and piping that would be a
different story, of course, but I can't see the usual propane burner
brewing ever being something I'd do just because I don't want to deal
with the canisters. When my gas grill started rusting I got rid of it
and went back to charcoal and wood grilling because I got tired of
dealing with propane canisters.

IMHO it only makes sense if you have a propane tank for the house which
we do. Still, there'd be the expense of running a line to where your man
cave with the brewing kit is. Bottles would be a non-starter for me
because you'd always have to keep two. Brewing requires so much propane
that you'll run out every so many batches.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Bob F

2017-12-03 17:44:57 UTC

Post by s***@gmail.com
If you do not get a full burn propane heaters used inside can
produce carbon monoxide. You know when you are getting a complete
burn when the flame is a blue colour on the bottom and yellow and
red flame on top.

I certainly would not take the chance.

Looking at Googlegroups, the original post was in 2002....
That thread had some interesting anecdotes about faulty tanks blowing
up and CO poisoning. It really seems to me that if stovetop boiling
for some reason wasn't practical, the smart solution would be to do
an electric setup, either with a prebuilt system or DIY.
It looks like all in one mash and boil systems that run on 110v are
down to around $300, and I would bet the cost plus the electricity to
run it wouldn't be that much more than a kettle, propane stove and
the propane tanks once you spread out the costs over a couple of
years.

I'm not an expert in these things, but my understanding from reading a
bit is that an all in one system that runs on 120v is a good bit faster
than that. I'm not sure if it generates more heat or is more efficient
or what, but reported times I've seen are significantly less, something
like half the time you report. 220v systems are supposed to be a good
bit faster than that, but generally pricier.
$300 for the Brewer's Edge system is probably more than I'd want to
replace my current stovetop setup, but I could imagine the price going
down in the future or seeing a good cheap used one for sale someday that
I'd buy.

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/BREWERS-EDGE-MASH-BOIL--P4216.aspx
Though they must have 100% effective insulation which is har to imagine.
http://bloglocation.com/art/water-heating-calculator-for-time-energy-power
I wish they'd keep the electronics separate on such units because I like
to give all my brewing equipment a thorough scrubbing after each use.
Due to the size that has to happen standing in the shower in keans
shorts and T-shirt in my case.
The other concern is the 1600W which is a close call for a 120V 15A
circuit. The power outlet will also become quite hot because of the
duration of this power draw. A 240V version, now that would be something.
I am still looking for a very large diameter 240V or 230V electric
burner that has >3000W. The ones I could get from Europe are too small
in diameter and then the thin aluminum bottom of my tamale steamer
turned brew kettle would bend.

You could install it and then have a pro check it.

If you have a laundry area with a wash tub, that would make an ideal
brewing area. Water is right there, and the dryer outlet would provide
power for a good sized 220V burner.

Joerg

2017-12-04 18:28:52 UTC

[...]

IMHO it only makes sense if you have a propane tank for the house
which we do. Still, there'd be the expense of running a line to where
your man cave with the brewing kit is. Bottles would be a non-starter
for me because you'd always have to keep two. Brewing requires so much
propane that you'll run out every so many batches.

If you have a laundry area with a wash tub, that would make an ideal
brewing area. Water is right there, and the dryer outlet would provide
power for a good sized 220V burner.

I thought about that but it's very cramped in there and would also smell
up the house. The other issue is that bottling would be near impossible
there and the fermentation chamber (modified wine fridge) is downstairs.
I'd have to schlepp the heavy buckets and my back is not good.

My favorite brew place is in the backyard. From there it's just a short
path to the fermentation chamber with only four shallow steps.

I could get 240V both downstairs and outside which out here is more like
255V, then if needed wire up a small auto-ransformer to step that down
to 230V or so. However, so far I haven't found a burned in Europe large
enough in diameter so it won't bend the kettle bottom.

One thing I'd really like to do is insulate the brew kettle for better
heating efficiency because it looks like those two 1kW burners is as
good as it gets for me. So far the water heater blankets and other stuff
has too much in loose fibers coming off that cold get into the brew.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Bob F

2017-12-05 23:51:59 UTC

Post by Joerg
I could get 240V both downstairs and outside which out here is more like
255V, then if needed wire up a small auto-ransformer to step that down
to 230V or so. However, so far I haven't found a burned in Europe large
enough in diameter so it won't bend the kettle bottom.

A better kettle would certainly help on that problem.

Joerg

2017-12-07 17:03:00 UTC

Post by Joerg
I could get 240V both downstairs and outside which out here is more
like 255V, then if needed wire up a small auto-ransformer to step that
down to 230V or so. However, so far I haven't found a burned in Europe
large enough in diameter so it won't bend the kettle bottom.

A better kettle would certainly help on that problem.

Yes, of course I could plunk down some three-digit sum to buy a new
kettle :-)

It still would make for a less-than-safe situation because the whole
thing would teeter on a small diameter burner. I want things stable.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

baloonon

2017-12-04 14:32:21 UTC

Post by baloonon
$300 for the Brewer's Edge system is probably more than I'd want to
replace my current stovetop setup, but I could imagine the price
going down in the future or seeing a good cheap used one for sale
someday that I'd buy.

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/BREWERS-EDGE-MASH-BOIL--P4216.aspx
Though they must have 100% effective insulation which is har to
imagine. Even then it would take 43mins to heat from 70F to 162F, nit
http://bloglocation.com/art/water-heating-calculator-for-time-energy-

power

One nice feature of these systems is that they're on a timer, so you can
set up the water the night before if you want to brew in the morning,
and when you're done with breakfast the water is ready at
(approximately) the right temp. I would assume there might be a need to
double check the temperature readout on the machine, so it may be
necessary to fiddle around a bit to hit exactly 160F or whatever the
target temperature is before adding the grain. But that can still be a
big convenience.

Come to think of it, there's a timer on my oven and in theory I could
put the water into the oven the night before to heat up at a designated
time, although I'm sure that would be wildly inefficient.

Joerg

2017-12-04 17:46:39 UTC

power
One nice feature of these systems is that they're on a timer, so you can
set up the water the night before if you want to brew in the morning,
and when you're done with breakfast the water is ready at
(approximately) the right temp. I would assume there might be a need to
double check the temperature readout on the machine, so it may be
necessary to fiddle around a bit to hit exactly 160F or whatever the
target temperature is before adding the grain. But that can still be a
big convenience.
Come to think of it, there's a timer on my oven and in theory I could
put the water into the oven the night before to heat up at a designated
time, although I'm sure that would be wildly inefficient.

I have a similar system rigged up downstairs and in the summer outside.
A digital thermometer wirelessly sends the temperature into the living
quarters and it beeps when the target is reached. So the usual drill is
to wake up, turn on both burners, have breakfast, handle morning emails
from clients and other things, at 155F put in the steeping grains, take
a shower, brush teeth, some other things, take out grains, set target to
208F and head for a nice long walk with the dogs. My wife then turns it
off when 208F is reached. I could also automate that with timer and
auto-turn-off or a "keep at target" control. Maybe some day but right
now this works well for us.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Bob F

2017-12-05 23:53:50 UTC

power
One nice feature of these systems is that they're on a timer, so you can
set up the water the night before if you want to brew in the morning,
and when you're done with breakfast the water is ready at
(approximately) the right temp. I would assume there might be a need to
double check the temperature readout on the machine, so it may be
necessary to fiddle around a bit to hit exactly 160F or whatever the
target temperature is before adding the grain. But that can still be a
big convenience.
Come to think of it, there's a timer on my oven and in theory I could
put the water into the oven the night before to heat up at a designated
time, although I'm sure that would be wildly inefficient.

The oven is insulated, so it might be more efficient.

baloonon

2017-12-07 00:54:37 UTC