Planning on naturally fermenting root beer in a Torpedo Keg

[Nic]

  Gave up beer, gout, but I could enjoy a couple of cold beers and a
cigarette😁
Is this the place where all the knowledgeable brewers lurk?

[Lafe]

Post by Nic
Gave up beer, gout, but I could enjoy a couple of cold beers and a
cigarette😁
Is this the place where all the knowledgeable brewers lurk?

I'd say I'm a lurker, but that implies more regularity than I regularly
show.

But there's a few of us still hanging about. Have you got a batch brewin'?

Lafe

[Nic]

Post by Lafe

Post by Nic
Gave up beer, gout, but I could enjoy a couple of cold beers and a
cigarette😁
Is this the place where all the knowledgeable brewers lurk?

I'd say I'm a lurker, but that implies more regularity than I regularly
show.
But there's a few of us still hanging about. Have you got a batch brewin'?
Lafe

I have, in to it 3 days. I decided to start with organic grape juice,
which has plenty of sugar, approx 1 gram of Champagne yeast (yeast was
proofed in a cup of warm well water with 2 teaspoons of sugar).  As I
said I am using a Torpedo Keg 1.5 Gallon. I have experienced vigorous
activity, I have a gauge on the tank and the pressure easily exceeds the
gauges 40 psi range. In fact I have to regularly burp the keg with the
PRV. When I pull on PRV I can tell that I am close to the valves release
point.

My thinking is when the fermentation starts to slow down then I can
assume that most of the sugar has been consumed, it is at this point
that I plan to bottle the juice with an added half teaspoon of sugar and
cap, allow a few days for additional fermentation/carbonation then
refrigerate. Would you say I am on the right direction for a sparkling
beverage?

[Lafe]

<snip>

Post by Nic
I have, in to it 3 days. I decided to start with organic grape juice,
which has plenty of sugar, approx 1 gram of Champagne yeast (yeast was
proofed in a cup of warm well water with 2 teaspoons of sugar).  As I
said I am using a Torpedo Keg 1.5 Gallon. I have experienced vigorous
activity, I have a gauge on the tank and the pressure easily exceeds the
gauges 40 psi range. In fact I have to regularly burp the keg with the
PRV. When I pull on PRV I can tell that I am close to the valves release
point.
My thinking is when the fermentation starts to slow down then I can
assume that most of the sugar has been consumed, it is at this point
that I plan to bottle the juice with an added half teaspoon of sugar and
cap, allow a few days for additional fermentation/carbonation then
refrigerate. Would you say I am on the right direction for a sparkling
beverage?

I'm thinking that it'll be a dry wine with hints of rocket fuel, but
probably very palatable! :D

I'd advise caution with bottling it though. Unless you are *very sure*
that the fermentation is *completely finished* I expect you'll end up
over-carbonating or possibly even detonating your bottles. It might be
worth serving it out of your torpedo keg, if possible! Or transferring it
to another one if you want to age it for very long. You won't explode that
one, and you can burp it as needed if you've got too much pressure.

If bottling is your only option, I'd recommend giving it an extra week or
two after you think it's completely finished, and giving the keg a shake-
n-stir every day or so during that week to give the yeast their best
chance of finishing up. Then crash-cooling it in a fridge to get the yeast
to settle before transferring it for bottling. When you transfer it, it
will probably still have quite a bit of co2 in solution, so be cautious
with how much sugar you add.

Best of luck, and I hope it's delicious!

Lafe

[Nic]

Post by Lafe
<snip>

Post by Nic
I have, in to it 3 days. I decided to start with organic grape juice,
which has plenty of sugar, approx 1 gram of Champagne yeast (yeast was
proofed in a cup of warm well water with 2 teaspoons of sugar).  As I
said I am using a Torpedo Keg 1.5 Gallon. I have experienced vigorous
activity, I have a gauge on the tank and the pressure easily exceeds the
gauges 40 psi range. In fact I have to regularly burp the keg with the
PRV. When I pull on PRV I can tell that I am close to the valves release
point.
My thinking is when the fermentation starts to slow down then I can
assume that most of the sugar has been consumed, it is at this point
that I plan to bottle the juice with an added half teaspoon of sugar and
cap, allow a few days for additional fermentation/carbonation then
refrigerate. Would you say I am on the right direction for a sparkling
beverage?

I'm thinking that it'll be a dry wine with hints of rocket fuel, but
probably very palatable! :D
I'd advise caution with bottling it though. Unless you are *very sure*
that the fermentation is *completely finished* I expect you'll end up
over-carbonating or possibly even detonating your bottles. It might be
worth serving it out of your torpedo keg, if possible! Or transferring it
to another one if you want to age it for very long. You won't explode that
one, and you can burp it as needed if you've got too much pressure.
If bottling is your only option, I'd recommend giving it an extra week or
two after you think it's completely finished, and giving the keg a shake-
n-stir every day or so during that week to give the yeast their best
chance of finishing up. Then crash-cooling it in a fridge to get the yeast
to settle before transferring it for bottling. When you transfer it, it
will probably still have quite a bit of co2 in solution, so be cautious
with how much sugar you add.
Best of luck, and I hope it's delicious!
Lafe

The batch is completed on 4/26/24. It tasted pretty awful, even with the
1/2 teaspoon of sugar added to each bottle, all the sugar was consumed,
the carbonation pressure was perfect. I think the problem was in the
original juice, even though it was listed as organic grape juice, they
added citric acid for tartness, when all the sugar was gone all that was
left was the citric acid (the tartness). I will attempt another batch in
a week or so, this time I will use a pure vanilla extract, boiled well
water and sugar. Cream soda is another one of life's pleasures.

[Lafe]

Post by Nic

Post by Lafe
<snip>

The batch is completed on 4/26/24. It tasted pretty awful, even with the
1/2 teaspoon of sugar added to each bottle, all the sugar was consumed,
the carbonation pressure was perfect. I think the problem was in the
original juice, even though it was listed as organic grape juice, they
added citric acid for tartness, when all the sugar was gone all that was
left was the citric acid (the tartness). I will attempt another batch in
a week or so, this time I will use a pure vanilla extract, boiled well
water and sugar. Cream soda is another one of life's pleasures.

Sorry to hear that it came out too dry. Using beer yeast instead of
champagne yeast might result in a sweeter flavor, as it doesn't tend to
ferment the sugars out as completely.

Good luck with the cream soda!

Lafe

[Nic]

Post by Lafe

Post by Nic

Post by Lafe
<snip>

The batch is completed on 4/26/24. It tasted pretty awful, even with the
1/2 teaspoon of sugar added to each bottle, all the sugar was consumed,
the carbonation pressure was perfect. I think the problem was in the
original juice, even though it was listed as organic grape juice, they
added citric acid for tartness, when all the sugar was gone all that was
left was the citric acid (the tartness). I will attempt another batch in
a week or so, this time I will use a pure vanilla extract, boiled well
water and sugar. Cream soda is another one of life's pleasures.

Sorry to hear that it came out too dry. Using beer yeast instead of
champagne yeast might result in a sweeter flavor, as it doesn't tend to
ferment the sugars out as completely.
Good luck with the cream soda!
Lafe

I will keep that in mind, that champagne yeast consumes more sugar. I
want to test out the same yeast to see if the results with plain sugar
and vanilla come out the same way. I have looked at yeasts and there is
a whole lot of information going on there, top fermenting, bottom
fermenting..etc. I have some distillers yeast, what do you think the
characteristics of this type of yeast are?

[Lafe]

On Fri, 3 May 2024 04:41:41 -0400, Nic wrote:
<snip>

Post by Nic
I will keep that in mind, that champagne yeast consumes more sugar. I
want to test out the same yeast to see if the results with plain sugar
and vanilla come out the same way. I have looked at yeasts and there is
a whole lot of information going on there, top fermenting, bottom
fermenting..etc. I have some distillers yeast, what do you think the
characteristics of this type of yeast are?

Distiller's yeast is specialized towards fermenting the maximum amount of
sugars possible; I think more so than even your typical champagne yeast
can handle. Its job is to produce the maximum amount of alcohol possible.
If you want any sweetness left, this is not a good choice... but if you're
looking for highest possible ethanol production, it's the yeast for the
job. If its your yeast for the primary fermentation, I would also expect
the flavor profile that it contributes to be rather poor.

Plain sugar, though, is fermented almost completely by practically any
strain of yeast. It can be used to dry out any recipe, as well as to
reliably increase its alcohol content. If you want residual sweetness
you'll want to use a more complex source of sugars, such as malt extract
(for beer making), otherwise you have to resort to extreme measures to
kill or remove the yeast before adding your sugar for sweetening after the
fact. Or use some alternative form of sweetening agent that your yeasty
buddies can't eat.

I should note that some types of malt extract (or other kinds of
extracts!) can be great for leaving sweetness, but my experience has been
in doing so with beer yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae, for ales or
Saccharomyces pastorianus for lagers). I think one feature of distiller's
yeast is its capacity to eat even more complex sugars than its more tame
cousins, so this measure might not add as much sweetness as might be
hoped, unless you get some very caramelized extract.

My experience is mostly focused on beer, so I'm sorry I can't offer better
advice for your cream soda!

Lafe

[Nic]

Post by Lafe
<snip>

Post by Nic
I will keep that in mind, that champagne yeast consumes more sugar. I
want to test out the same yeast to see if the results with plain sugar
and vanilla come out the same way. I have looked at yeasts and there is
a whole lot of information going on there, top fermenting, bottom
fermenting..etc. I have some distillers yeast, what do you think the
characteristics of this type of yeast are?

Distiller's yeast is specialized towards fermenting the maximum amount of
sugars possible; I think more so than even your typical champagne yeast
can handle. Its job is to produce the maximum amount of alcohol possible.
If you want any sweetness left, this is not a good choice... but if you're
looking for highest possible ethanol production, it's the yeast for the
job. If its your yeast for the primary fermentation, I would also expect
the flavor profile that it contributes to be rather poor.
Plain sugar, though, is fermented almost completely by practically any
strain of yeast. It can be used to dry out any recipe, as well as to
reliably increase its alcohol content. If you want residual sweetness
you'll want to use a more complex source of sugars, such as malt extract
(for beer making), otherwise you have to resort to extreme measures to
kill or remove the yeast before adding your sugar for sweetening after the
fact. Or use some alternative form of sweetening agent that your yeasty
buddies can't eat.
I should note that some types of malt extract (or other kinds of
extracts!) can be great for leaving sweetness, but my experience has been
in doing so with beer yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae, for ales or
Saccharomyces pastorianus for lagers). I think one feature of distiller's
yeast is its capacity to eat even more complex sugars than its more tame
cousins, so this measure might not add as much sweetness as might be
hoped, unless you get some very caramelized extract.
My experience is mostly focused on beer, so I'm sorry I can't offer better
advice for your cream soda!
Lafe

The field getting narrower and narrower to making home made soda pop.
What I dont understand is why champagne yeast is recommended for soda
making. My end goal is to have a probiotic  beverage that can be made at
home and tastes good. Have you any thoughts on the yeast


Saccharomyces boulardii? I discovered this yeast after watching this
video

I ordered some from Amazon and plan another batch of cream soda using
this yeast to ferment.

[Lafe]

Post by Nic
The field getting narrower and narrower to making home made soda pop.
What I dont understand is why champagne yeast is recommended for soda
making.

For making a sweet, carbonated beverage, you probably want to explore
force carbonation. It can be done with small CO2 tanks, minimal fittings
(of which a regulator is the main expense), and 2-liter plastic bottles
quite handily! I used to make carbonated lemon water, or watermelon water
all the time for my family in the summer. Super easy, cheap, and a lovely
*replacement* for soda.

For making *fermented* beverages that are not going to be super dry and
alcoholic, there are plenty of options, but they don't usually taste much
like the soda the we have today.

Small beers, or mild ales, can be lovely alternatives, and some folks have
studied the field quite extensively and come up with very tasty results.

Also maybe look into alternative fermented beverages like kombucha!

Post by Nic
My end goal is to have a probiotic  beverage that can be made at
home and tastes good. Have you any thoughts on the yeast

In my mind, this describes home-brewed beer! :) But again, it won't
taste much like soda.

Post by Nic
Saccharomyces boulardii? I discovered this yeast after watching this
video http://youtu.be/zo4sgh7iyao

That video was very interesting! I have a few thoughts after watching it.

First things first, I have no experience doing what that fellow is doing.
Nor have I ever used that kind of yeast for anything.

He dumped some yeast in fruit juice in a *glass* jar and sealed it up.
That just seems like asking for trouble to me. :D He mentions that if you
let it run too long that it can explode. So I guess if you're gonna use
his method just make /certain/ that you are not going to forget for a
little too long. Or at least be a little smarter and use plastic bottles,
so when you disturb it you're just getting fruit juice on your ceiling,
and not glass shards in your eyes.

It still has some sweetness left just because he drinks it before
fermentation is done.

I can't comment on the health factors of that yeast because I don't know
any of them.

My over-all advice is that if you're going to use his method, please be
cautious!

Post by Nic
I ordered some from Amazon and plan another batch of cream soda using
this yeast to ferment.

If you're planning to drink it before fermentation is done, please also
note that any time I've drunk anything actively fermenting it continues
happily doing so all the way through my "system", if you know what I
mean. :D

Lafe

[Nic]

Post by Lafe

Post by Nic
The field getting narrower and narrower to making home made soda pop.
What I dont understand is why champagne yeast is recommended for soda
making.

For making a sweet, carbonated beverage, you probably want to explore
force carbonation. It can be done with small CO2 tanks, minimal fittings
(of which a regulator is the main expense), and 2-liter plastic bottles
quite handily! I used to make carbonated lemon water, or watermelon water
all the time for my family in the summer. Super easy, cheap, and a lovely
*replacement* for soda.
For making *fermented* beverages that are not going to be super dry and
alcoholic, there are plenty of options, but they don't usually taste much
like the soda the we have today.
Small beers, or mild ales, can be lovely alternatives, and some folks have
studied the field quite extensively and come up with very tasty results.
Also maybe look into alternative fermented beverages like kombucha!

Post by Nic
My end goal is to have a probiotic  beverage that can be made at
home and tastes good. Have you any thoughts on the yeast

In my mind, this describes home-brewed beer! :) But again, it won't
taste much like soda.

Post by Nic
Saccharomyces boulardii? I discovered this yeast after watching this
video http://youtu.be/zo4sgh7iyao

That video was very interesting! I have a few thoughts after watching it.
First things first, I have no experience doing what that fellow is doing.
Nor have I ever used that kind of yeast for anything.
He dumped some yeast in fruit juice in a *glass* jar and sealed it up.
That just seems like asking for trouble to me. :D He mentions that if you
let it run too long that it can explode. So I guess if you're gonna use
his method just make /certain/ that you are not going to forget for a
little too long. Or at least be a little smarter and use plastic bottles,
so when you disturb it you're just getting fruit juice on your ceiling,
and not glass shards in your eyes.
It still has some sweetness left just because he drinks it before
fermentation is done.
I can't comment on the health factors of that yeast because I don't know
any of them.
My over-all advice is that if you're going to use his method, please be
cautious!

Post by Nic
I ordered some from Amazon and plan another batch of cream soda using
this yeast to ferment.

If you're planning to drink it before fermentation is done, please also
note that any time I've drunk anything actively fermenting it continues
happily doing so all the way through my "system", if you know what I
mean. :D
Lafe

I plan to use the corny keg for the fermentation, the keg has a pressure
release valve that will burp the ferment. So maybe the answer is in your
answer, drinking the ferment before it has become very dry.  I have
received the yeast (Saccharomyces boulardii), swallowed a capsule to
test it out on my body, the results were a pleasing sensation in my gut.
Here is my plan, 1 gallon of boiled well water, 2 cups of dissolved
sugar, 4 tablespoons of vanilla bean paste, 1 Saccharomyces boulardii
capsule, then monitor the pressure gauge on the corny keg. It will
probably take some guess work to determine when to bottle the brew to
avoid broken glass bottles. I imagine that by observation of the primary
fermentation in the keg, the degree of aggressiveness the yeast digests
the sugar will be an indicator. Almost seems like voodoo science.

[Lafe]

Post by Nic
I plan to use the corny keg for the fermentation, the keg has a pressure
release valve that will burp the ferment. So maybe the answer is in your
answer, drinking the ferment before it has become very dry.  I have
received the yeast (Saccharomyces boulardii), swallowed a capsule to
test it out on my body, the results were a pleasing sensation in my gut.
Here is my plan, 1 gallon of boiled well water, 2 cups of dissolved
sugar, 4 tablespoons of vanilla bean paste, 1 Saccharomyces boulardii
capsule, then monitor the pressure gauge on the corny keg. It will
probably take some guess work to determine when to bottle the brew to
avoid broken glass bottles. I imagine that by observation of the primary
fermentation in the keg, the degree of aggressiveness the yeast digests
the sugar will be an indicator. Almost seems like voodoo science.

Brewing is both art and science! I'm very interested to hear about how
your experiment goes. Every batch I ever made always taught me something
new. It's part of the fun.

Lafe

[Nic]

Post by Lafe

Post by Nic
I plan to use the corny keg for the fermentation, the keg has a pressure
release valve that will burp the ferment. So maybe the answer is in your
answer, drinking the ferment before it has become very dry.  I have
received the yeast (Saccharomyces boulardii), swallowed a capsule to
test it out on my body, the results were a pleasing sensation in my gut.
Here is my plan, 1 gallon of boiled well water, 2 cups of dissolved
sugar, 4 tablespoons of vanilla bean paste, 1 Saccharomyces boulardii
capsule, then monitor the pressure gauge on the corny keg. It will
probably take some guess work to determine when to bottle the brew to
avoid broken glass bottles. I imagine that by observation of the primary
fermentation in the keg, the degree of aggressiveness the yeast digests
the sugar will be an indicator. Almost seems like voodoo science.

Brewing is both art and science! I'm very interested to hear about how
your experiment goes. Every batch I ever made always taught me something
new. It's part of the fun.
Lafe

Post by Nic
I plan to use the corny keg for the fermentation, the keg has a pressure
release valve that will burp the ferment. So maybe the answer is in your
answer, drinking the ferment before it has become very dry.  I have
received the yeast (Saccharomyces boulardii), swallowed a capsule to
test it out on my body, the results were a pleasing sensation in my gut.
Here is my plan, 1 gallon of boiled well water, 2 cups of dissolved
sugar, 4 tablespoons of vanilla bean paste, 1 Saccharomyces boulardii
capsule, then monitor the pressure gauge on the corny keg. It will
probably take some guess work to determine when to bottle the brew to
avoid broken glass bottles. I imagine that by observation of the primary
fermentation in the keg, the degree of aggressiveness the yeast digests
the sugar will be an indicator. Almost seems like voodoo science.

Brewing is both art and science! I'm very interested to hear about how
your experiment goes. Every batch I ever made always taught me something
new. It's part of the fun.
Lafe

I need to study non ferment-able sugars and back sweetening the brew.
The second ferment (the bottling) is where I would add the non
ferment-able sugar. I have a list of sugars and their  glycemic index, I
wonder if there is a correlation between low GI and ferment-able sugar?

Sweetener Type Glycemic Index
Maltodextrin Sugar 110
Maltose Sugar 105
Dextrose Sugar 100
Glucose Sugar 100
Trehalose Sugar 70
HFCS-42 Modified Sugar 68
Sucrose Sugar 65
Caramel Modified Sugar 60
Golden Syrup Modified Sugar 60
Inverted Sugar Modified Sugar 60
Refiners Syrup Modified Sugar 60
HFCS-55 Modified Sugar 58
Blackstrap Molasses Sugar Extract 55
Maple Syrup Natural Sugar 54
Honey Natural Sugar 50
Sorghum Syrup Natural Sugar 50
Lactose Sugar 45
Cane Juice Sugar Extract 43
Barley Malt Syrup Modified Sugar 42
HSH Sugar Alcohol 35
Coconut Palm Sugar Natural Sugar 35
Maltitol Sugar Alcohol 35
HFCS-90 Modified Sugar 31
Brown Rice Syrup Modified Sugar 25
Fructose Sugar 25
Galactose Sugar 25
Agave Syrup Modified Sugar 15
Xylitol Sugar Alcohol 12
Glycerol Sugar Alcohol 5
Sorbitol Sugar Alcohol 4
Lactitol Sugar Alcohol 3
Isomalt Sugar Alcohol 2
Mannitol Sugar Alcohol 2
Erythritol Sugar Alcohol 1
Yacon Syrup Natural Sweetener 1
Oligofructose Sugar Fiber 1
Inulin Sugar Fiber 1
Brazzein Natural Sweetener 0
Curculin Natural Sweetener 0
Glycyrrhizin Natural Sweetener 0
Luo Han Guo Natural Sweetener 0
Miraculin Natural Sweetener 0
Monellin Natural Sweetener 0
Pentadin Natural Sweetener 0
Stevia Natural Sweetener 0
Thaumatin Natural Sweetener 0
Acesulfame K Artificial Sweetener 0
Alitame Artificial Sweetener 0
Aspartame Artificial Sweetener 0
Cyclamate Artificial Sweetener 0
Neotame Artificial Sweetener 0
Saccharin Artificial Sweetener 0
Sucralose Artificial Sweetener 0