Using harvested yeast from Wheat Beer for Cream Ale and Irish Red?

[Joerg]

In a few minutes I am going to rack an American Wheat and a Stout to
secondary. Next up for brewing tomorrow are a Cream Ale and an Irish
Red. All use US-05 yeast. The way I normally do it is pouring the trub
from each primary into two mason jars. After a day or so in the fridge I
let it warm up again and pour the liquid, the white yeast layer plus a
small dose of the trub into the next batch for fermenting. That has
worked well for many batches, even 3rd generation.

Naturally the yeast from the Stout won't be used because that is a very
dark beer with a strong "smokey" flavor. So that will be turned into a
nice dark bread with a crunchy crust. Both the Stout and the American
Wheat had honey added at end of boil. About 1-1/2 lbs each for 5-gallon
batches.

Is it ok to use the yeast from the trub of a Wheat Beer to ferment ales
such as Cream Ale and Irish Red? Also when considering the honey addition?

BTW, we would still use the remaining yeast-stripped trub and add it to
the Stout bread starter, for a bigger loaf.

[baloonon]

Post by Joerg
Is it ok to use the yeast from the trub of a Wheat Beer to ferment
ales such as Cream Ale and Irish Red? Also when considering the honey
addition?

It's mostly a matter of taste. I personally might prefer an English yeast
for the Irish Red and maybe stray a bit from purist style guidelines, but
your S05 isn't likely to get in the way.

If you are concerned about yeast health or volume, it's pretty easy to do a
starter a few days in advance if you have any spare malt extract or a pale
base malt.

[Joerg]

Post by baloonon

Post by Joerg
Is it ok to use the yeast from the trub of a Wheat Beer to ferment
ales such as Cream Ale and Irish Red? Also when considering the honey
addition?

It's mostly a matter of taste. I personally might prefer an English yeast
for the Irish Red and maybe stray a bit from purist style guidelines, but
your S05 isn't likely to get in the way.
If you are concerned about yeast health or volume, it's pretty easy to do a
starter a few days in advance if you have any spare malt extract or a pale
base malt.

Well, the water for the IPA is heating up right now. I'll just use the
recovered yeast from the Wheat Ale and see what happens.

But first the dogs need to be walked. Those radio thermometers are
great. The receiver is on the kitchen counter and my wife can turn
things off if it reaches 207F and beeps before I get back.

[baloonon]

Post by Joerg
Well, the water for the IPA is heating up right now. I'll just use the
recovered yeast from the Wheat Ale and see what happens.
But first the dogs need to be walked. Those radio thermometers are
great. The receiver is on the kitchen counter and my wife can turn
things off if it reaches 207F and beeps before I get back.

I'm sure it will be fine.

If you want an easy to harvest yeast, you can try a top cropping British
one like Wyeast 1318. I use 1318 a lot and it's really easy to just pop
the top off the fermenting bucket and scoop out a ton of yeast for the
next batches. Doing it that way is clean, too, (assuming you skim off
the first layer of trubby stuff) so you don't have to worry about
anything getting mixed in like you would if you're harvesting trub --
although you can also harvest 1318 that way if you want.

I think 1318 works really well for American style beers as well as
British. It adds some flavor but it's not overwhelming, in my opinion.
I've reused Wyeast 1469 too, and I like it, but I think it's a better
match flavorwise for just British beers.

[Joerg]

Post by baloonon

Post by Joerg
Well, the water for the IPA is heating up right now. I'll just use the
recovered yeast from the Wheat Ale and see what happens.
But first the dogs need to be walked. Those radio thermometers are
great. The receiver is on the kitchen counter and my wife can turn
things off if it reaches 207F and beeps before I get back.

I'm sure it will be fine.

The IPA came alive within 4h (a record so far) and the Pale Ale took a
little over 10h. Same harvested yeast, no idea why that difference.

Post by baloonon
If you want an easy to harvest yeast, you can try a top cropping British
one like Wyeast 1318. I use 1318 a lot and it's really easy to just pop
the top off the fermenting bucket and scoop out a ton of yeast for the
next batches. Doing it that way is clean, too, (assuming you skim off
the first layer of trubby stuff) so you don't have to worry about
anything getting mixed in like you would if you're harvesting trub --
although you can also harvest 1318 that way if you want.

That won't be so easy in my case. The two primary fermenters sit on the
upper shelf of a tall modified wine fridge and there is only an inch or
so between air locks and ceiling. Lifting them in and out is tough for
me. I've got enough muscle but my lower back is not that great. So I
want to avoid any lifting that can be avoided. Also, prying the lids is
somewhat tedious and requires good access from above.

It is amazing what sort of energy comes from fermenters. At first the
warm wort heated the fridge from 62F to 73F within a few hours so I had
to leave its door open until late evening. Now it is at 69F just from
the fermentation process. This gives me time to finish the heater module
later today (the last missing part). It probably won't even have to come
on before the Friday.

Post by baloonon
I think 1318 works really well for American style beers as well as
British. It adds some flavor but it's not overwhelming, in my opinion.
I've reused Wyeast 1469 too, and I like it, but I think it's a better
match flavorwise for just British beers.

So far I am still a lowly extract brewer and haven't delved into the
intricacies of the various yeast strains yet. I just use whatever the
recipe says has to be used, assuming there aren't any serious mutations
over two to three generations. Later this year the plan is to move to
BIAB for some of the brews. Got to get a roller mill and a pain strainer
bag.

[baloonon]

Baloonon
The IPA came alive within 4h (a record so far) and the Pale Ale took a
little over 10h. Same harvested yeast, no idea why that difference.

4 hours is really fast. I assume it was the animal sacrifice.

Post by baloonon
If you want an easy to harvest yeast, you can try a top cropping
British one like Wyeast 1318. I use 1318 a lot and it's really
easy to just pop the top off the fermenting bucket and scoop out
a ton of yeast for the next batches. Doing it that way is clean,
too, (assuming you skim off the first layer of trubby stuff) so
you don't have to worry about anything getting mixed in like you
would if you're harvesting trub -- although you can also harvest
1318 that way if you want.

That won't be so easy in my case. The two primary fermenters sit on
the upper shelf of a tall modified wine fridge and there is only an
inch or so between air locks and ceiling. Lifting them in and out
is tough for me. I've got enough muscle but my lower back is not
that great. So I want to avoid any lifting that can be avoided.
Also, prying the lids is somewhat tedious and requires good
access from above.

I know, drill a hole just above the fill line and install a spigot you
can use to drain off the yeast (note I'm suggesting you put your
fermenters to risk instead of trying that on my own stuff....)

It is amazing what sort of energy comes from fermenters. At first the
warm wort heated the fridge from 62F to 73F within a few hours so
I had to leave its door open until late evening. Now it is at 69F
just from the fermentation process.

I read a series of posts on http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com mocking a
lot of established folklore about beer in Scotland supposedly being
fermented at cool temperatures due to the climate. The historian pulled
up figures to show the story is nonsense, and when you consider how much
heat gets kicked off from large scale fermenters, you realize how the
story was silly.

Post by baloonon
I think 1318 works really well for American style beers as well as
British. It adds some flavor but it's not overwhelming, in my
opinion. I've reused Wyeast 1469 too, and I like it, but I think
it's a better match flavorwise for just British beers.

So far I am still a lowly extract brewer and haven't delved into the
intricacies of the various yeast strains yet. I just use whatever the
recipe says has to be used, assuming there aren't any serious
mutations over two to three generations. Later this year the plan
is to move to BIAB for some of the brews. Got to get a roller mill
and a pain strainer bag.

A lot of suppliers will let you sub out one yeast for another in
prepackaged recipes, and if you're making extract beer it's not a bad
idea to start playing around with some different yeasts to see what
effect it has. It's an easy way to change just one variable and get an
sense of what you like.

[Joerg]

Post by baloonon

Baloonon
The IPA came alive within 4h (a record so far) and the Pale Ale took a
little over 10h. Same harvested yeast, no idea why that difference.

4 hours is really fast. I assume it was the animal sacrifice.

Post by baloonon
If you want an easy to harvest yeast, you can try a top cropping
British one like Wyeast 1318. I use 1318 a lot and it's really
easy to just pop the top off the fermenting bucket and scoop out
a ton of yeast for the next batches. Doing it that way is clean,
too, (assuming you skim off the first layer of trubby stuff) so
you don't have to worry about anything getting mixed in like you
would if you're harvesting trub -- although you can also harvest
1318 that way if you want.

That won't be so easy in my case. The two primary fermenters sit on
the upper shelf of a tall modified wine fridge and there is only an
inch or so between air locks and ceiling. Lifting them in and out
is tough for me. I've got enough muscle but my lower back is not
that great. So I want to avoid any lifting that can be avoided.
Also, prying the lids is somewhat tedious and requires good
access from above.

I know, drill a hole just above the fill line and install a spigot you
can use to drain off the yeast (note I'm suggesting you put your
fermenters to risk instead of trying that on my own stuff....)

:-)

Or maybe a pluggable hole in the lid to push in a straw. With a very
powerful light one might see enough through the white plastic.

Post by baloonon

It is amazing what sort of energy comes from fermenters. At first the
warm wort heated the fridge from 62F to 73F within a few hours so
I had to leave its door open until late evening. Now it is at 69F
just from the fermentation process.

I read a series of posts on http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com mocking a
lot of established folklore about beer in Scotland supposedly being
fermented at cool temperatures due to the climate. The historian pulled
up figures to show the story is nonsense, and when you consider how much
heat gets kicked off from large scale fermenters, you realize how the
story was silly.

As long as fermentation gets started before the wort has cooled down too
much. With harvested yeast that isn't a problem because it starts in
less than 12h. With dry yeast this can take one to three days.

The primary reasons for rigging up the fermentation fridge were to get
the four fermenters out of the living space and then to make sure things
don't become too toasty in summer. I don't want fusel oils or
off-tastes. I added the heating capability so I don't have to run the
pellet stove just for the beer. I can't imagine a primary after 5-6 days
or a secondary sitting at 50-55F to be very healthy. I would probably
just sit there doing nothing.

Post by baloonon

Post by baloonon
I think 1318 works really well for American style beers as well as
British. It adds some flavor but it's not overwhelming, in my
opinion. I've reused Wyeast 1469 too, and I like it, but I think
it's a better match flavorwise for just British beers.

So far I am still a lowly extract brewer and haven't delved into the
intricacies of the various yeast strains yet. I just use whatever the
recipe says has to be used, assuming there aren't any serious
mutations over two to three generations. Later this year the plan
is to move to BIAB for some of the brews. Got to get a roller mill
and a pain strainer bag.

A lot of suppliers will let you sub out one yeast for another in
prepackaged recipes, and if you're making extract beer it's not a bad
idea to start playing around with some different yeasts to see what
effect it has. It's an easy way to change just one variable and get an
sense of what you like.

Good idea. So far I order >50% of my recipe kits without any yeast
because I harvest from previous batches.