Wort chiller, stainless or copper?

[Joerg]

In the interest of my lower back I am considering a wort chiller instead
of schlepping the pot to the pool. Those come in stainless steel which I
guess is easier to clean and also in copper which would have better heat
transfer, same price:

https://www.midwestsupplies.com/homebrewing-equipment/wort-chillers

Experience with stainless? Which material do you recommend?

Other questions:

I don't have a utility sink. Would it be sufficient to tap into one of
those 1/4" copper lines underneath a regular bathroom faucet?

How many gallons of waters do you usually have to run through the coil
to cool five gallons of wort from boil to <80F? With the droughts and
all that's a factor out here. Downstairs there isn't much else I could
use the hot runoff for other than letting it drain into the sink.

[Ecnerwal]

Post by Joerg
In the interest of my lower back I am considering a wort chiller instead
of schlepping the pot to the pool. Those come in stainless steel which I
guess is easier to clean and also in copper which would have better heat
https://www.midwestsupplies.com/homebrewing-equipment/wort-chillers
Experience with stainless? Which material do you recommend?

Mine is copper, but at the time copper was probably (much) cheaper than
stainless. Stainless tubing is stronger and thus often thinner so the
bulk thermal conductivity difference may not inform the actual
performance in use. But I've only used the copper one.

It's not especially hard to clean - wipe it down with vinegar or
star-san to remove excess oxides if it's been stored a long time (they
remove themselves into the wort and it comes out shiny and clean if you
don't do that, but you want to think about where they go if following
that route...) - sanitation wise, being in the pot for 15-20 minutes at
the end of the boil does all the sanitizing you could ever need.

Post by Joerg
I don't have a utility sink. Would it be sufficient to tap into one of
those 1/4" copper lines underneath a regular bathroom faucet?
How many gallons of waters do you usually have to run through the coil
to cool five gallons of wort from boil to <80F? With the droughts and
all that's a factor out here. Downstairs there isn't much else I could
use the hot runoff for other than letting it drain into the sink.

We repeat - use a pump and hoses to bring the pool to the (immersion
chiller in) the pot. That would favor stainless, and waste no water at
all. Alternatively, you can run a few gallons from a bucket full of ice,
through the chiller, to another bucket, and then send the water back to
the ice bucket manually or with a small pump. I don't actually monitor
the gallons used (no shortage here.)

[Joerg]

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by Joerg
In the interest of my lower back I am considering a wort chiller instead
of schlepping the pot to the pool. Those come in stainless steel which I
guess is easier to clean and also in copper which would have better heat
https://www.midwestsupplies.com/homebrewing-equipment/wort-chillers
Experience with stainless? Which material do you recommend?

Mine is copper, but at the time copper was probably (much) cheaper than
stainless. Stainless tubing is stronger and thus often thinner so the
bulk thermal conductivity difference may not inform the actual
performance in use. But I've only used the copper one.
It's not especially hard to clean - wipe it down with vinegar or
star-san to remove excess oxides if it's been stored a long time (they
remove themselves into the wort and it comes out shiny and clean if you
don't do that, but you want to think about where they go if following
that route...) - sanitation wise, being in the pot for 15-20 minutes at
the end of the boil does all the sanitizing you could ever need.

A friend told me that for $70 you could not even make your own coil from
copper tube and fittings. Maybe stainless is the better one then because
it won't release stuff you missed between the turns into the wort.

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by Joerg
I don't have a utility sink. Would it be sufficient to tap into one of
those 1/4" copper lines underneath a regular bathroom faucet?
How many gallons of waters do you usually have to run through the coil
to cool five gallons of wort from boil to <80F? With the droughts and
all that's a factor out here. Downstairs there isn't much else I could
use the hot runoff for other than letting it drain into the sink.

We repeat - use a pump and hoses to bring the pool to the (immersion
chiller in) the pot. That would favor stainless, and waste no water at
all. Alternatively, you can run a few gallons from a bucket full of ice,
through the chiller, to another bucket, and then send the water back to
the ice bucket manually or with a small pump. I don't actually monitor
the gallons used (no shortage here.)

The pool is too far from there. Also, my wife is rather paranoid about
bugs buzzing and crawling into the house because the door screen would
need to remain cracked for the hoses.

Ice is expensive. However, this brings up a question I wanted to asked
in a separate post. I remember you mentioning that you are using a pump
to transfer between pots, fermenters and buckets. I found siphoning to
be a messy business and once even lost siphon action mid-racking. Plus a
pump would allow me do do this without lifting heavy buckets and also
leave more of the sludge in the brew kettle. Hang a tube in there from
the top, turn on pump and ferry over. Is there something other than a
medical roller pump that is also easily cleanable afterwards and can be
sanitized?

[Ecnerwal]

Post by Joerg
in a separate post. I remember you mentioning that you are using a pump
to transfer between pots, fermenters and buckets. I found siphoning to
be a messy business and once even lost siphon action mid-racking. Plus a
pump would allow me do do this without lifting heavy buckets and also
leave more of the sludge in the brew kettle. Hang a tube in there from
the top, turn on pump and ferry over. Is there something other than a
medical roller pump that is also easily cleanable afterwards and can be
sanitized?

People use various things for pumps, many of which have more nooks and
crannies than I'm comfortable with from a cleaning point of view - Mine
is, in fact, a "scientific" (ie, not medical, per se) peristaltic
(a.k.a. roller/tube) pump since I have a strong preference for that and
I found a deal on the 'bay (after a good bit of looking, and it's a
dumber pump that I might like, though if I was to find the time I could
supposedly write serial control software to make it smart (fill bottles
just so.) I'm too cheap to buy the outdated software from the pump maker
for the obsolete pump...and I could not find anything like a deal on a
pump with that built-in (they make them, but they are or were very
expensive.)

While I enjoy siphons, once you get past wort I don't enjoy using them
for beer, as the gasses coming out of solution do lead to things like
losing the siphon partway through a racking. And not having to raise the
full container is easier, no doubts.

[Joerg]

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by Joerg
in a separate post. I remember you mentioning that you are using a pump
to transfer between pots, fermenters and buckets. I found siphoning to
be a messy business and once even lost siphon action mid-racking. Plus a
pump would allow me do do this without lifting heavy buckets and also
leave more of the sludge in the brew kettle. Hang a tube in there from
the top, turn on pump and ferry over. Is there something other than a
medical roller pump that is also easily cleanable afterwards and can be
sanitized?

People use various things for pumps, many of which have more nooks and
crannies than I'm comfortable with from a cleaning point of view - Mine
is, in fact, a "scientific" (ie, not medical, per se) peristaltic
(a.k.a. roller/tube) pump since I have a strong preference for that and
I found a deal on the 'bay (after a good bit of looking, and it's a
dumber pump that I might like, though if I was to find the time I could
supposedly write serial control software to make it smart (fill bottles
just so.) I'm too cheap to buy the outdated software from the pump maker
for the obsolete pump...and I could not find anything like a deal on a
pump with that built-in (they make them, but they are or were very
expensive.)
While I enjoy siphons, once you get past wort I don't enjoy using them
for beer, as the gasses coming out of solution do lead to things like
losing the siphon partway through a racking. And not having to raise the
full container is easier, no doubts.

Looks like you never had the hose fail with the peristaltic pump. I'll
keep my eye out for a pump, either roller or diaphragm because they
don't need to be primed. Siphon is ok but the lifting or five gallon
bucket won't be for me long term. Plenty of muscles are there but those
"floppy disks" in the spine are another story ...

Today I have to go to Placerville, again, to return on of the cooktops
and buy a new one. Its thermostat starts cutting out when the pot gets
past 120F <grumble>. Took me a whole hour to get to 150F and then almost
another hour to get to boil for 6 gallons. Good news is the wireless
thermometer reaches into the office so I can work while things are
heating up down there. That makes a sluggish warm-up less of a concern.
If I had a smart phone I could let the pot send me the actual
temperatures via an "app" so I could even walk the dogs in that time.

[Whirled Peas]

Post by Joerg

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by Joerg
in a separate post. I remember you mentioning that you are using a pump
to transfer between pots, fermenters and buckets. I found siphoning to
be a messy business and once even lost siphon action mid-racking. Plus a
pump would allow me do do this without lifting heavy buckets and also
leave more of the sludge in the brew kettle. Hang a tube in there from
the top, turn on pump and ferry over. Is there something other than a
medical roller pump that is also easily cleanable afterwards and can be
sanitized?

People use various things for pumps, many of which have more nooks and
crannies than I'm comfortable with from a cleaning point of view - Mine
is, in fact, a "scientific" (ie, not medical, per se) peristaltic
(a.k.a. roller/tube) pump since I have a strong preference for that and
I found a deal on the 'bay (after a good bit of looking, and it's a
dumber pump that I might like, though if I was to find the time I could
supposedly write serial control software to make it smart (fill bottles
just so.) I'm too cheap to buy the outdated software from the pump maker
for the obsolete pump...and I could not find anything like a deal on a
pump with that built-in (they make them, but they are or were very
expensive.)
While I enjoy siphons, once you get past wort I don't enjoy using them
for beer, as the gasses coming out of solution do lead to things like
losing the siphon partway through a racking. And not having to raise the
full container is easier, no doubts.

Looks like you never had the hose fail with the peristaltic pump. I'll
keep my eye out for a pump, either roller or diaphragm because they
don't need to be primed. Siphon is ok but the lifting or five gallon
bucket won't be for me long term. Plenty of muscles are there but those
"floppy disks" in the spine are another story ...
Today I have to go to Placerville, again, to return on of the cooktops
and buy a new one. Its thermostat starts cutting out when the pot gets
past 120F <grumble>. Took me a whole hour to get to 150F and then almost
another hour to get to boil for 6 gallons. Good news is the wireless
thermometer reaches into the office so I can work while things are
heating up down there. That makes a sluggish warm-up less of a concern.
If I had a smart phone I could let the pot send me the actual
temperatures via an "app" so I could even walk the dogs in that time.

There's another kind of pump that's often used in homebrewing. This has
the impeller connected to the motor only by magnetic coupling. No
rollers, no diaphragm, no direct connection. Very gentle on the wort,
but you have to make sure to get a high temperature version.

[Joerg]

Post by Whirled Peas

Post by Joerg

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by Joerg
in a separate post. I remember you mentioning that you are using a pump
to transfer between pots, fermenters and buckets. I found siphoning to
be a messy business and once even lost siphon action mid-racking. Plus a
pump would allow me do do this without lifting heavy buckets and also
leave more of the sludge in the brew kettle. Hang a tube in there from
the top, turn on pump and ferry over. Is there something other than a
medical roller pump that is also easily cleanable afterwards and can be
sanitized?

People use various things for pumps, many of which have more nooks and
crannies than I'm comfortable with from a cleaning point of view - Mine
is, in fact, a "scientific" (ie, not medical, per se) peristaltic
(a.k.a. roller/tube) pump since I have a strong preference for that and
I found a deal on the 'bay (after a good bit of looking, and it's a
dumber pump that I might like, though if I was to find the time I could
supposedly write serial control software to make it smart (fill bottles
just so.) I'm too cheap to buy the outdated software from the pump maker
for the obsolete pump...and I could not find anything like a deal on a
pump with that built-in (they make them, but they are or were very
expensive.)
While I enjoy siphons, once you get past wort I don't enjoy using them
for beer, as the gasses coming out of solution do lead to things like
losing the siphon partway through a racking. And not having to raise the
full container is easier, no doubts.

Looks like you never had the hose fail with the peristaltic pump. I'll
keep my eye out for a pump, either roller or diaphragm because they
don't need to be primed. Siphon is ok but the lifting or five gallon
bucket won't be for me long term. Plenty of muscles are there but those
"floppy disks" in the spine are another story ...
Today I have to go to Placerville, again, to return on of the cooktops
and buy a new one. Its thermostat starts cutting out when the pot gets
past 120F <grumble>. Took me a whole hour to get to 150F and then almost
another hour to get to boil for 6 gallons. Good news is the wireless
thermometer reaches into the office so I can work while things are
heating up down there. That makes a sluggish warm-up less of a concern.
If I had a smart phone I could let the pot send me the actual
temperatures via an "app" so I could even walk the dogs in that time.

There's another kind of pump that's often used in homebrewing. This has
the impeller connected to the motor only by magnetic coupling. No
rollers, no diaphragm, no direct connection. Very gentle on the wort,
but you have to make sure to get a high temperature version.

I have read about those. They are especially nice because the output
line can have a valve. Probably good for bottling. Some day I am going
to have to do something like that because doing that job bent over with
the bottles on the ground isn't good for the back.