Stronger than usual fermentation of a Cream Ale

[Joerg]

11 days ago I brewed a Cream Ale and a Copper Ale. Same yeast, dry
Safale US-05 from fresh packages, both together in the same fermentation
chamber, same temperature. The Cream Ale started fermenting less than
10h later, with gusto, and the fermentation also lasted more than a day
longer than on the Copper Ale despite the Cream Ale having lower
gravity. Today I transferred both to secondary. Both tasted great but
the Cream Ale had a real head in my little sampling beker. Tried several
times and got that head every time. Yet no sour note or any off-flavors.

Question: Is the yeast from the trub of that Cream Ale still harvestable
or should I let it got into a bread instead?

The plan is to brew a Red Ale and a Saison this week. The harvested
yeast would be for the Red.

[baloonon]

Post by Joerg
11 days ago I brewed a Cream Ale and a Copper Ale. Same yeast,
dry Safale US-05 from fresh packages, both together in the same
fermentation chamber, same temperature. The Cream Ale started
fermenting less than 10h later, with gusto, and the fermentation
also lasted more than a day longer than on the Copper Ale
despite the Cream Ale having lower gravity. Today I transferred
both to secondary. Both tasted great but the Cream Ale had a
real head in my little sampling beker. Tried several
times and got that head every time. Yet no sour note or any
off-flavors.
Question: Is the yeast from the trub of that Cream Ale still
harvestable or should I let it got into a bread instead?

I would bet it's fine to reuse. If you have any doubts, you can always
dissolve 200 g of dry extract in 2 liters of water and pitch a fairly
small amount of trub. It should work fine as a starter, but if there's
any kind of weird microorganism lurking it should show up there, so
you'll know before you start a full batch.

There ought to be enough S-05 from the Copper to use for multiple
batches as well.

Post by Joerg
The plan is to brew a Red Ale and a Saison this week. The harvested
yeast would be for the Red.

I just used S-33 for the first time in a
wheat/rye/pilsner/buckwheat/oatmeal beer I made a couple of days ago. I
could have sworn I had T-58 on hand, but when I pulled the packet from
the freezer it turned out to be S-33, which I have no recollection of
buying. I'll see how it goes....

[Joerg]

Post by baloonon

Post by Joerg
11 days ago I brewed a Cream Ale and a Copper Ale. Same yeast,
dry Safale US-05 from fresh packages, both together in the same
fermentation chamber, same temperature. The Cream Ale started
fermenting less than 10h later, with gusto, and the fermentation
also lasted more than a day longer than on the Copper Ale
despite the Cream Ale having lower gravity. Today I transferred
both to secondary. Both tasted great but the Cream Ale had a
real head in my little sampling beker. Tried several
times and got that head every time. Yet no sour note or any
off-flavors.
Question: Is the yeast from the trub of that Cream Ale still
harvestable or should I let it got into a bread instead?

I would bet it's fine to reuse. If you have any doubts, you can always
dissolve 200 g of dry extract in 2 liters of water and pitch a fairly
small amount of trub.

Thanks, a good hint, I'll try that next time. Especially since the DME
won't be lost but would all go in as a starter.

Post by baloonon
... It should work fine as a starter, but if there's
any kind of weird microorganism lurking it should show up there, so
you'll know before you start a full batch.
There ought to be enough S-05 from the Copper to use for multiple
batches as well.

I have brewed the Irish Red yesterday and used the yeast harvested from
the Copper Ale instead. The Cream Ale yeast won't go to waste though. As
usual it will become part of a bread with a nice crunchy crust. It's
about time because I almost ate up the last chunk of trub bread at lunch
today. That one was from a Belgian Triple. Yummy.

Post by baloonon

Post by Joerg
The plan is to brew a Red Ale and a Saison this week. The harvested
yeast would be for the Red.

I just used S-33 for the first time in a
wheat/rye/pilsner/buckwheat/oatmeal beer I made a couple of days ago. I
could have sworn I had T-58 on hand, but when I pulled the packet from
the freezer it turned out to be S-33, which I have no recollection of
buying. I'll see how it goes....

I have the water for a Saison heating up right now. I'll use Lallemand
Belle Saison yeast. That one is finicky. It needs to be hydrated in
86-95F water for 15mins, then stirred, then brought to wort temp in
teaspoon slivers. Sounds like the yeasties could get a heart attack
otherwise.

Why is it that designers of kitchen ovens can't get it into their heads
that there are people in this world who dare to brew or make their own
bread dough? We have a brand new double-oven and unfortunately it has
digital controls. Won't go below 170F. It would be a simple zero-cost
software fix to allow that to go all the way down to room temperature.
On the former wine cooler fridge I hacked the control electronics and
added my own control box but I don't want to have to also do that for
the kitchen oven. Harumph. Grumble.

[baloonon]

Post by Joerg
I have the water for a Saison heating up right now. I'll use Lallemand
Belle Saison yeast. That one is finicky. It needs to be hydrated in
86-95F water for 15mins, then stirred, then brought to wort temp in
teaspoon slivers. Sounds like the yeasties could get a heart attack
otherwise.

I used it once and I don't recall it being that delicate -- I believe I
just rehydrated and pitched. Dry yeast packets usually have a lot of
surplus except for really big beers, though there's no harm in closely
following directions.

Post by Joerg
Why is it that designers of kitchen ovens can't get it into their heads
that there are people in this world who dare to brew or make their own
bread dough? We have a brand new double-oven and unfortunately it has
digital controls. Won't go below 170F. It would be a simple zero-cost
software fix to allow that to go all the way down to room temperature.
On the former wine cooler fridge I hacked the control electronics and
added my own control box but I don't want to have to also do that for
the kitchen oven. Harumph. Grumble.

Mine goes to 150, although to be honest I would be surprised if that's
accurate. In my experience the temps listed on ovens vary a lot from
the actual temps inside, although I'm sure the most expensive ones are
more consistent than ones like mine. And then the temp range from top
to bottom and in the corners and around the vessels inside the oven must
vary by a decent amount.

There's a saying some people like to repeat that cooking is an art but
baking is a science, but I don't really believe it. Baking may be more
precise than stovetop cooking, but it's still pretty highly variable
based on the baker, the ingredients, and the equipment, and it requires
a lot of the intuitive guesswork of a regular cook.

[Joerg]

Post by baloonon

Post by Joerg
I have the water for a Saison heating up right now. I'll use Lallemand
Belle Saison yeast. That one is finicky. It needs to be hydrated in
86-95F water for 15mins, then stirred, then brought to wort temp in
teaspoon slivers. Sounds like the yeasties could get a heart attack
otherwise.

I used it once and I don't recall it being that delicate -- I believe I
just rehydrated and pitched. Dry yeast packets usually have a lot of
surplus except for really big beers, though there's no harm in closely
following directions.

It dissolved itself without stirring after just a few minutes. Was
amazing to watch, like storm clouds forming in the Midwest. I preheated
a small pot on top of my kettle lid during the last minutes of boil,
sprinkled the yeast into the warm water and while moving the chiller
coil around kept an eye on things. My trusty old radio thermometer told
me when to goose the little pot a bit with my wife's hair dryer to keep
the temp in the prescribed 86-95F range. After the wort was cooled I
ladled small quantities of wort into the starter to acclimate the yeast
to the wort temperature. It was close enough at about 85F but I wanted
to follow proper brew house procedure.

Fermentation is very behaved, the kraeusen never exceeded an inch. I
just went down there to make sure. Having learned my lessons from two
Belgian Triple batches that almost went nuclear I now keep blow-off gear
right next to the fermentation chamber. I also equipped one of the
fermenters with a big bulkhead hose connector for that and with new
recipe beers in there that one always goes in the front. So I can reach in.

Post by baloonon

Post by Joerg
Why is it that designers of kitchen ovens can't get it into their heads
that there are people in this world who dare to brew or make their own
bread dough? We have a brand new double-oven and unfortunately it has
digital controls. Won't go below 170F. It would be a simple zero-cost
software fix to allow that to go all the way down to room temperature.
On the former wine cooler fridge I hacked the control electronics and
added my own control box but I don't want to have to also do that for
the kitchen oven. Harumph. Grumble.

Mine goes to 150, although to be honest I would be surprised if that's
accurate. In my experience the temps listed on ovens vary a lot from
the actual temps inside, although I'm sure the most expensive ones are
more consistent than ones like mine. And then the temp range from top
to bottom and in the corners and around the vessels inside the oven must
vary by a decent amount.

Much of that can be calibrated out. Ovens often use cheap NTC resistors
and simple electronics for temp sensing. You can calibrate that oven by
using a (maybe borrowed) precise industrial thermometer that has
thermocouples on thin wires. This results in a sheet with indicated
versus actual temperatures. Now you have a much more accurate oven. It
also helps to know where the temperature sensor is located so you can
place the pot close to it or find out a fudge factor that accounts for
the difference.

In the fermenting chamber (used to be a wine fridge) I relocated the
upper NTC sensor so a more realistic temperature is displayed.
Afterwards it tracked a calibration thermometer to within 1F. However, I
also made a sensor holder bending thick aluminum so it snug-fits a
plastic bucket fermenter. This gets strapped around the fermenter that
went in last, using a bungee cord. A red light inside allows me to read
that whenever I look through the glass door and also shines a bit
through those white buckets so a borderline kraeusen situation can be
caught in time.

It's the same with other gear. The meat thermometer I use for steeping
temps and stuff can be calibrated. Mine turned out to be within +/-1F
but that was luck. They can easily be off 4-5F and for mashing or
steeping that can matter. I was not so lucky with the hydrometer where I
initially was wondering why my worts and beers always read lower than
the recipes called out. Until I calibrated it and found that it was
reading 0.003 low. Two more that I have as spares read 0.002 and 0.003 high.

There is a trick to coax a regular oven to regulate to lower
temperatures. Paralleling a fixed resistor to the NTC sensor can be used
to make it "think" that it's at 200F or somewhere up there while in
reality the oven is at 100F. It won't be linear though and you'd have to
rely on a cheat sheet from a calibration run. Wire access can also be a
challenge. Must be switched, otherwise the missus will be very unhappy
when a cake failed because the oven never became hot.

Post by baloonon
There's a saying some people like to repeat that cooking is an art but
baking is a science, but I don't really believe it. Baking may be more
precise than stovetop cooking, but it's still pretty highly variable
based on the baker, the ingredients, and the equipment, and it requires
a lot of the intuitive guesswork of a regular cook.

Yeah, like beer :-)