Storage temps of fresh home brew in bottles

[Joerg]

Folks,

Yesterday we tested our first homebrew beer, a Pale Ale. Opened the
flip-top of a bottle ... *POP* ... poured it, nice head, bubbles in the
beer, tasted good.

Of course now I'd like to brew more beer and this poses a storage
challenge. I currently have the beer in bottles in a fridge that I use
for fermentation and carbonation. With some trickery it can be set to
69F or wherever the beer needs it to be. To make room for the next
fermenter load the bottles have to go elsewhere.

Minor issue: We do not use A/C so it can get up to 85F in the house.
Store-bought beer does not seem to mind and we had only one bottle
grenade on us in years when it went to almost 90F. Is homebrew going to
be happy when stored at such high temperatures?

Here's hoping that Midwest Supplies has another one of their free
shipping days ... :-)

[Ecnerwal]

Post by Joerg
Minor issue: We do not use A/C so it can get up to 85F in the house.
Store-bought beer does not seem to mind and we had only one bottle
grenade on us in years when it went to almost 90F. Is homebrew going to
be happy when stored at such high temperatures?

Not having grenades has almost nothing to do with temperature - it has
to do with completing fermentation and throughly mixing priming sugar
(or otherwise distributing it correctly, such as primetabs.)

While a nice beer cave would be ideal, it should not blow up at any
normal house temperature, and if it does, it wasn't the temperature to
blame. My storage is that warm or warmer at times, no explosions.

[Joerg]

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by Joerg
Minor issue: We do not use A/C so it can get up to 85F in the house.
Store-bought beer does not seem to mind and we had only one bottle
grenade on us in years when it went to almost 90F. Is homebrew going to
be happy when stored at such high temperatures?

Not having grenades has almost nothing to do with temperature - it has
to do with completing fermentation and throughly mixing priming sugar
(or otherwise distributing it correctly, such as primetabs.)

I waited the full two weeks for fermentation on be really complete, then
bottled. Priming was with the usual 5oz of sugar for 5gal of beer. The
loudness of the pop of the Grolsch bottle was about the same as with the
original Grolsch beer in there so everything seems normal.

The beer is a tad cloudy but tastes good.

Post by Ecnerwal
While a nice beer cave would be ideal, it should not blow up at any
normal house temperature, and if it does, it wasn't the temperature to
blame. My storage is that warm or warmer at times, no explosions.

So I take it that moving the bottles into the cabinet and being exposed
to 85F or so is ok. I'll try that when the new set of ingredients is
here which is when I'd brew and need that downstairs fridge again.

[Ecnerwal]

Post by Joerg
I waited the full two weeks for fermentation on be really complete, then
bottled.

Which is almost certainly fine. As I warned you long ago, I sometimes
overthink, so _my_ default minimum is a week in primary and 2 weeks in
secondary, though I have been known (rarely) to shift it out of primary
sooner if it's had a roaring good time and gone flop in 3 days, AND I
had another batch itching to go. Long before I understood this stuff, I
used to make "home-made rootbeer" which is basically bottle-bombs
(extract, lots of sugar, a little baking yeast, and bottle it) and did
indeed have some go off, though in hindsight a lot fewer than I might
expect now. I've taken a position of excessive care to avoid them with
real beer.

I never look at the gravity if I'm not moving, or about to move, the
beer - I check the wort, I check where it's at after primary when
transferring into secondary. If it looks significantly different after a
couple weeks in secondary, it gets 2-4 weeks more before I look at it
again. That is rare indeed for "normal" brews. And for that 12% batch
you contemplate, 2-3 weeks in P and 2-3 months in S would be _my_
minimum (yes, I know you are not using a secondary at the moment, and
that's just fine) and 6 months in S would not be unreasonable - "big
brews" are far more prone to get tricksy on short schedules.

Over-checking gravity just means giving other things more opportunities
to get into the beer.

[Joerg]

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by Joerg
I waited the full two weeks for fermentation on be really complete, then
bottled.

Which is almost certainly fine. As I warned you long ago, I sometimes
overthink, so _my_ default minimum is a week in primary and 2 weeks in
secondary, though I have been known (rarely) to shift it out of primary
sooner if it's had a roaring good time and gone flop in 3 days, AND I
had another batch itching to go.

Looks like that is the kind of situation we'll have soon. After my wife
found how good and fresh homebrew tastes versus store-bought, or about
as good as a growler brought home, she is asking me when I'll brew the
next. I now even have permission to use the kitchen for the wort boil.
Yay! Our old Thermador range does not have anything (!) in the datasheet
stating burner wattages but I am sure it'll be 2kW or more on the big
ones. So I won't have to wait over an hour for a boil anymore. The
white-knuckle part will be schlepping the scaldingly hot heavy pot down
several deck stairs so I can cool it in the pool.

Post by Ecnerwal
... Long before I understood this stuff, I
used to make "home-made rootbeer" which is basically bottle-bombs
(extract, lots of sugar, a little baking yeast, and bottle it) and did
indeed have some go off, though in hindsight a lot fewer than I might
expect now. I've taken a position of excessive care to avoid them with
real beer.

Root beer is one of the beverages that can make me sick just looking at
it. I can't stand it.

But we did have numerous ale bottles grenade on us when I brewed 35
years ago with some buddies. Aside from being impatient a contributing
factor might have been that we enjoyed the beer from the previous batch
a bit much while brewing and bottling.

Post by Ecnerwal
I never look at the gravity if I'm not moving, or about to move, the
beer - I check the wort, I check where it's at after primary when
transferring into secondary. If it looks significantly different after a
couple weeks in secondary, it gets 2-4 weeks more before I look at it
again. That is rare indeed for "normal" brews. And for that 12% batch
you contemplate, 2-3 weeks in P and 2-3 months in S would be _my_
minimum (yes, I know you are not using a secondary at the moment, and
that's just fine) and 6 months in S would not be unreasonable - "big
brews" are far more prone to get tricksy on short schedules.

No 12% batches here because the missus doesn't like stuff too far north
of 6%. Well, I might brew one for myself but I'd need a second
fermenter. First I'll try an IPA and a Cream Ale, then another batch of
Pale Ale because she likes it and it'll be all gone by then.

Post by Ecnerwal
Over-checking gravity just means giving other things more opportunities
to get into the beer.

True. I only check right before pitching the yeast and then before
bottling. My first batch had dropped from 1.042 to to 1.012 on the
hygrometer and no more bubbles so that sounded safe.

I have seen one cool device for this, a radio hydrometer. It sends the
readings from inside the fermenter right to your living room so you can
see the progress. Was expensive though and I rather invest that money in
grains and stuff.

A quick question: Even when rinsing the emptied homebrew bottles with
hot water (almost boiling) there is visible yeast staining in the
bottom. Slightly milky patches. Does that need to be scrubbed out? Or
should I use some sort of oxygen cleaner or PBW? On bottling day they
all get dunked into StarSan for 2mins or more but not sure if that
suffices for such yeast stains.

[Ecnerwal]

Post by Joerg
next. I now even have permission to use the kitchen for the wort boil.
Yay! Our old Thermador range does not have anything (!) in the datasheet
stating burner wattages but I am sure it'll be 2kW or more on the big
ones. So I won't have to wait over an hour for a boil anymore. The
white-knuckle part will be schlepping the scaldingly hot heavy pot down
several deck stairs so I can cool it in the pool.

If you have an ordinary coil type electric range I suggest picking up a
"canning element" for a few bucks. It's somewhat reinforced and sits the
pot a little higher off the stovetop, which is supposedly better when
using an overhanging pot such as a canner or brewkettle. I just leave it
in place all the time, it works fine for regular stuff too. IIRC mine is
2.6 or 2.7 KW, fundamentally the same as the large element it replaces.
I guess I did this on advice from elsewhere before I ever had an issue
with using the regular burner, so it might be a myth I'm perpetuating,
but I've been using it with my 40 quart pot (typically 7 gallons to
start with) for 20 years now, and it's outlasted one stove (had an oven
issue that was cheaper to replace the ancient stove than fix the issue)
already.

Getting burnt or throwing your back out are no fun. If you irrigate
anything or need to replace water that evaporates from the pool, you
could (easily) save the trip by using an immersion coil cooler, and run
the output to the pool or a barrel (too hot at first for direct
irrigation.) More complicatedly you could bring the pool to the stove
with a pump and two hoses for the coil cooler. On a simpler route you
could ladle from the pot into smaller pots to take to the pool for
cooling.

Post by Joerg
I have seen one cool device for this, a radio hydrometer. It sends the
readings from inside the fermenter right to your living room so you can
see the progress. Was expensive though and I rather invest that money in
grains and stuff.

There's lots of junque to make brewing more exciting for the
smartphone-addicted generation. I yawn. You could leave an ordinary
hydrometer floating in a carboy if it made you happy, or you could
precisely graduate the carboy for volume and park it on a sensitive
scale. None of it is particularly cost effective, but it keeps some part
of the economy moving so long as there is a supply of suckers, so more
power to them, but my wallet will remain un-crowbared, as will yours.

Post by Joerg
A quick question: Even when rinsing the emptied homebrew bottles with
hot water (almost boiling) there is visible yeast staining in the
bottom. Slightly milky patches. Does that need to be scrubbed out? Or
should I use some sort of oxygen cleaner or PBW? On bottling day they
all get dunked into StarSan for 2mins or more but not sure if that
suffices for such yeast stains.

Good old (and cheap) chlorine bleach and water soak should get that
stuff moving out. Did you get a "Jet carboy and bottlewasher" as part of
your kit, and / or do you have a bottle brush? I use the former, and if
I don't let the crud dry in there first (pour the beer, rinse the
bottle) rarely need to resort to the bleach soak - that will solve
bottles you'd think can never be used again, given adequate time.

[Joerg]

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by Joerg
next. I now even have permission to use the kitchen for the wort boil.
Yay! Our old Thermador range does not have anything (!) in the datasheet
stating burner wattages but I am sure it'll be 2kW or more on the big
ones. So I won't have to wait over an hour for a boil anymore. The
white-knuckle part will be schlepping the scaldingly hot heavy pot down
several deck stairs so I can cool it in the pool.

If you have an ordinary coil type electric range I suggest picking up a
"canning element" for a few bucks. It's somewhat reinforced and sits the
pot a little higher off the stovetop,

That's the show stopper for many women because it would make the
stainless decorative cover not sit flush anymore like for all the other
burners. In our case not possible anyhow because Thermador uses
non-standard burners which by now have become almost unobtanium for our
range.

One issue I have is that the stainless wort pot has a thin bottom. So I
get burn-through, you can see the coil pattern of the burner even on the
inside. I'll have to cut myself an aluminum or steel plate to place
between burner and pot for a more even heat distribution. Longterm I'll
get a better and most of all bigger pot.

Post by Ecnerwal
... which is supposedly better when
using an overhanging pot such as a canner or brewkettle. I just leave it
in place all the time, it works fine for regular stuff too. IIRC mine is
2.6 or 2.7 KW, fundamentally the same as the large element it replaces.
I guess I did this on advice from elsewhere before I ever had an issue
with using the regular burner, so it might be a myth I'm perpetuating,
but I've been using it with my 40 quart pot (typically 7 gallons to
start with) for 20 years now, and it's outlasted one stove (had an oven
issue that was cheaper to replace the ancient stove than fix the issue)
already.

How long does it take for those 7 gal to get to a boil?

Post by Ecnerwal
Getting burnt or throwing your back out are no fun. If you irrigate
anything or need to replace water that evaporates from the pool, you
could (easily) save the trip by using an immersion coil cooler, and run
the output to the pool or a barrel (too hot at first for direct
irrigation.) More complicatedly you could bring the pool to the stove
with a pump and two hoses for the coil cooler. On a simpler route you
could ladle from the pot into smaller pots to take to the pool for
cooling.

I want to keep it simple. Maybe I'll strap it to a dolly to get it down
the stairs or use that to take the long way around the house (way fewer
steps and nothing steep).

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by Joerg
I have seen one cool device for this, a radio hydrometer. It sends the
readings from inside the fermenter right to your living room so you can
see the progress. Was expensive though and I rather invest that money in
grains and stuff.

There's lots of junque to make brewing more exciting for the
smartphone-addicted generation. I yawn. You could leave an ordinary
hydrometer floating in a carboy if it made you happy, or you could
precisely graduate the carboy for volume and park it on a sensitive
scale. None of it is particularly cost effective, but it keeps some part
of the economy moving so long as there is a supply of suckers, so more
power to them, but my wallet will remain un-crowbared, as will yours.

My fermenter is a white bucket, no see-through. But I am not keen on
having to know the readings all the time. Beginning and end is good
enough, tells me whether it's more or less fermented out.

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by Joerg
A quick question: Even when rinsing the emptied homebrew bottles with
hot water (almost boiling) there is visible yeast staining in the
bottom. Slightly milky patches. Does that need to be scrubbed out? Or
should I use some sort of oxygen cleaner or PBW? On bottling day they
all get dunked into StarSan for 2mins or more but not sure if that
suffices for such yeast stains.

Good old (and cheap) chlorine bleach and water soak should get that
stuff moving out. Did you get a "Jet carboy and bottlewasher" as part of
your kit, and / or do you have a bottle brush?

None of that, I'll have to buy a bottle brush. Chlorine bleach is a good
idea.

Post by Ecnerwal
... I use the former, and if
I don't let the crud dry in there first (pour the beer, rinse the
bottle) rarely need to resort to the bleach soak - that will solve
bottles you'd think can never be used again, given adequate time.

We always rinse the bottles right after pouring/drinking and then let
them dry upside down.

[baloonon]

Post by Joerg
One issue I have is that the stainless wort pot has a thin bottom. So
I get burn-through, you can see the coil pattern of the burner even on
the inside. I'll have to cut myself an aluminum or steel plate to
place between burner and pot for a more even heat distribution.
Longterm I'll get a better and most of all bigger pot.

If carrying is an issue, boil in two (or even three) pots. Carrying 2-3
gallons of boiling hot liquid is much easier and much safer than carrying
5-6. Two pots will cool a lot faster than one due to the greater surface
area too. Look at second hand stores, ebay or Craigs List for cheap
options, they always appear. And you get a bit more flexibility if you
have two fermenters -- you can make two different types at once for almost
the same amount of work, just a little more cleanup. You can also
experiment easily -- make the same base beer but hop one with Cascade and
one with Goldings, for example.

[Joerg]

Post by baloonon

Post by Joerg
One issue I have is that the stainless wort pot has a thin bottom. So
I get burn-through, you can see the coil pattern of the burner even on
the inside. I'll have to cut myself an aluminum or steel plate to
place between burner and pot for a more even heat distribution.
Longterm I'll get a better and most of all bigger pot.

If carrying is an issue, boil in two (or even three) pots. Carrying 2-3
gallons of boiling hot liquid is much easier and much safer than carrying
5-6. Two pots will cool a lot faster than one due to the greater surface
area too. Look at second hand stores, ebay or Craigs List for cheap
options, they always appear. And you get a bit more flexibility if you
have two fermenters -- you can make two different types at once for almost
the same amount of work, just a little more cleanup. You can also
experiment easily -- make the same base beer but hop one with Cascade and
one with Goldings, for example.

That is an excellent idea! It also makes for a much faster boil. I just
watched our meter to see how powerful the electric range is. Turns out
2kW per burner which should cut my time to reach boil down to 35-40mins.
If I'd use two pots and two burners I'd be there in less that 20mins.
I'd just have to get a 2nd muslin bag and weigh the grains and hops into
two equal batches.

The 2nd fermenter is tougher because we barely have "suitable" storage
space. Sez SWMBO. "What if I store it in the walk-in closet?" ...
"NOOO!" ... I'll ask her again after I brewed a Koelsch style, just
ordered the ingredients. If it is close to the Koelsch style beer from
EDH Brewing where I get it in a growler I'd win because she said that is
the best.

Right now I am still an extract brewer so it's partial boil at 3gal a
session, adding 2gal of chilled purified water to the fermenter. But
there will come a day where I am back to full grain like I did in the
old days when there was no extract.

[Ecnerwal]

Right, you asked how long it takes me to boil the 7 gallons I typically
start with.

That's a tricky question, because I almost never try to boil as fast as
I can, as I pretty much always am steeping specialty grains or even a
partial mash and my first wort hops before I ever get around to boiling.

I have never done the concentrated boil version of extract brewing - I
always boil full volume, but I'm usually stopped at 145-165°F for quite
some time putting character into the the beer.

[Joerg]

Post by Ecnerwal
Right, you asked how long it takes me to boil the 7 gallons I typically
start with.
That's a tricky question, because I almost never try to boil as fast as
I can, as I pretty much always am steeping specialty grains or even a
partial mash and my first wort hops before I ever get around to boiling.
I have never done the concentrated boil version of extract brewing - I
always boil full volume, but I'm usually stopped at 145-165°F for quite
some time putting character into the the beer.

Similar for the Pale Ale where some specialty grains had to be steeped
in. I meant the time minus the pause at the 150F pedestal (which was
20mins for me this time).

Back in the 80's we also did full boil and all grain because there were
no extracts available. But that was in Germany where each electric
circuit has 230V at 16 amps and even our portable burner had 2.5kW, more
than the big ones on our range here.

Some day when I can really retire I want to try boiling over wood fire.
I am doing that with food for a long time, making a little wood fire in
the Weber kettle. But for brewing I'd need to rig something so I can
ratchet the pot up and down for temperature control once the boil is
achieved. That would be the really manly way of brewing like in the days
of the Vikings :-)

[Ecnerwal]

Post by Joerg
Back in the 80's we also did full boil and all grain because there were
no extracts available. But that was in Germany where each electric
circuit has 230V at 16 amps and even our portable burner had 2.5kW, more
than the big ones on our range here.

I've never actually done all grain, and if I could still get Laaglander
dry malt easily/cheaply (by the 25kg bag) I probably would never go
there. I like a beer with lousy attenuation (high unfermentables, lots
of body) and that stuff does it very nicely. I have started to play with
partial mash, facing the fact that I'm going to have to go to all grain
eventually to get what I used to get from Laaglander, and I've always
used lots of specialty malts, primarily chocolate. The concentrated boil
never struck me as a good thing, and I had equipment that would fit the
full boil, so I've always done it that way.

If you can get dry malt that suits what you want to brew at a reasonable
price, it's certainly faster than all-grain. I gave up on liquid malt as
it does not store well and my brewing is sporadic or episodic at best -
bought some to play with when I was having an episode, found scraping
the mold off the top of the jugs was not much fun, and it's much more
annoying to measure than dry, too. Brewed it all up and renewed my
commitment to dry for extract. But Laaglander seems to have become a
Unicorn in the US market.

I know that some folks have worked up "hot sticks" which are basically a
water heater element set up as an immersion heater. 3-4.5 kW on tap, run
a cable and put your pot on a trivet near (perhaps not too near) your
pool. And of course the RIMS systems for serious
electronic/mechanical/chemical engineer geek all-grain twiddling on the
mash side. No end to the toys...

Post by Joerg
really manly way of brewing like in the days
of the Vikings :-)

Wooden barrel, hot rocks. Then stir it with the magic (yeast, or
whatever, probably more whatever [lactic bacteria] from what I
understand about Viking brews) stick.

[Joerg]

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by Joerg
Back in the 80's we also did full boil and all grain because there were
no extracts available. But that was in Germany where each electric
circuit has 230V at 16 amps and even our portable burner had 2.5kW, more
than the big ones on our range here.

I've never actually done all grain, and if I could still get Laaglander
dry malt easily/cheaply (by the 25kg bag) I probably would never go
there. I like a beer with lousy attenuation (high unfermentables, lots
of body) and that stuff does it very nicely. I have started to play with
partial mash, facing the fact that I'm going to have to go to all grain
eventually to get what I used to get from Laaglander, and I've always
used lots of specialty malts, primarily chocolate. The concentrated boil
never struck me as a good thing, and I had equipment that would fit the
full boil, so I've always done it that way.
If you can get dry malt that suits what you want to brew at a reasonable
price, it's certainly faster than all-grain. I gave up on liquid malt as
it does not store well and my brewing is sporadic or episodic at best -
bought some to play with when I was having an episode, found scraping
the mold off the top of the jugs was not much fun, and it's much more
annoying to measure than dry, too. Brewed it all up and renewed my
commitment to dry for extract. But Laaglander seems to have become a
Unicorn in the US market.

It'll be a long time for me until I get back to all grain. I don't even
have a 2nd fermenter now. Although I am thinking about doing 1st in the
bottling bucket and then moving for 2nd to the "real" fermenter, moving
the lid as well over after racking. The only difference between the two
6.5 gal buckets is that the bottling bucket has a spigot but that
shouldn't matter. However, I'd have 1-1/2 gallons of head space in the
2nd fermenter which I believe is not so good.

So I'll keep it simple for now and do extract with the occasional
specuialty grain steeping and single fermentation.

Post by Ecnerwal
I know that some folks have worked up "hot sticks" which are basically a
water heater element set up as an immersion heater. 3-4.5 kW on tap, run
a cable and put your pot on a trivet near (perhaps not too near) your
pool. And of course the RIMS systems for serious
electronic/mechanical/chemical engineer geek all-grain twiddling on the
mash side. No end to the toys...

Post by Joerg
really manly way of brewing like in the days
of the Vikings :-)

Wooden barrel, hot rocks. Then stir it with the magic (yeast, or
whatever, probably more whatever [lactic bacteria] from what I
understand about Viking brews) stick.

And only the stick from old uncle Haakon worked. Nobody knew why.

[baloonon]

Post by Joerg
It'll be a long time for me until I get back to all grain. I don't
even have a 2nd fermenter now. Although I am thinking about doing 1st
in the bottling bucket and then moving for 2nd to the "real"
fermenter, moving the lid as well over after racking. The only
difference between the two 6.5 gal buckets is that the bottling bucket
has a spigot but that shouldn't matter. However, I'd have 1-1/2
gallons of head space in the 2nd fermenter which I believe is not so
good.
So I'll keep it simple for now and do extract with the occasional
specuialty grain steeping and single fermentation.

I think I mentioned it before, but doing all grain by the brew in a bag
method only requires investing in one or maybe two five gallon mesh paint
strainer bags, which cost about $5 from a hardware store. No separate
equipment for mashing or sparging is necessary (probably). The only other
investment is the hour or so for mashing and a little bit of cleanup.

[Joerg]

Post by baloonon

Post by Joerg
It'll be a long time for me until I get back to all grain. I don't
even have a 2nd fermenter now. Although I am thinking about doing 1st
in the bottling bucket and then moving for 2nd to the "real"
fermenter, moving the lid as well over after racking. The only
difference between the two 6.5 gal buckets is that the bottling bucket
has a spigot but that shouldn't matter. However, I'd have 1-1/2
gallons of head space in the 2nd fermenter which I believe is not so
good.
So I'll keep it simple for now and do extract with the occasional
specuialty grain steeping and single fermentation.

I think I mentioned it before, but doing all grain by the brew in a bag
method only requires investing in one or maybe two five gallon mesh paint
strainer bags, which cost about $5 from a hardware store. No separate
equipment for mashing or sparging is necessary (probably). The only other
investment is the hour or so for mashing and a little bit of cleanup.

I am very interested in the BIAB method but first I'd like to gain some
more experience with extract brewing and partial boils. Then I'd also
have to find a much bigger pot of 7-8gal. Need a new pot anyhow because
the stainless one that came with the kit is way too thin in its bottom.

On Wednesday the ingredients for an IPA, another Pale Ale and a Koelsch
style should arrive and I am planning the next brew session for Friday.
Can't wait. I'll have to cut an aluminum plate to go between burner and
pot because the kitchen range burner has twice the power of the outdoor one.

[Whirled Peas]

On 08/03/2016 07:37 AM, Joerg wrote:
That would be the really manly way of brewing like in the days

Post by Joerg
of the Vikings :-)

I've read that the Viking *women* did most of the brewing. :-)

[Joerg]

Post by Joerg
That would be the really manly way of brewing like in the days

Post by Joerg
of the Vikings :-)

I've read that the Viking *women* did most of the brewing. :-)

And don't nobody get Fridrika upset in any way while brewing :-)

[Howard]

The white-knuckle part will be schlepping the scaldingly hot
heavy pot down several deck stairs so I can cool it in the pool.

You can split the batch between two pots. It's a lot easier if you have
to carry it any distance.

Post by Ecnerwal
... Long before I understood this stuff, I
used to make "home-made rootbeer" which is basically bottle-bombs
(extract, lots of sugar, a little baking yeast, and bottle it) and
did indeed have some go off, though in hindsight a lot fewer than I
might expect now. I've taken a position of excessive care to avoid
them with real beer.

Root beer is one of the beverages that can make me sick just looking
at it. I can't stand it.
But we did have numerous ale bottles grenade on us when I brewed 35
years ago with some buddies. Aside from being impatient a contributing
factor might have been that we enjoyed the beer from the previous
batch a bit much while brewing and bottling.

Post by Ecnerwal
Over-checking gravity just means giving other things more
opportunities to get into the beer.

True. I only check right before pitching the yeast and then before
bottling. My first batch had dropped from 1.042 to to 1.012 on the
hygrometer and no more bubbles so that sounded safe.

One option is to put a few quarts in a mini fermenter -- you can just
use a big jar with a slightly loosened lid -- which you use for hydro
tests. It should ferment at the same rate as the main one as long as
they're kept together, and if it gets an infection it will be isolated
from the main batch.

It's probably worth doing a final check on the main batch before
bottling. Once the main batch is bottled, you can just add the smaller
batch to the bottling bucket with a proportional amount of sugar.
Obviously, don't add it back into the main batch before bottling.

I don't do this, to be honest, and I've gotten a lot more relaxed about
opening my fermenter multiple times during fermentation to top crop
yeast, take hydro samples, dry hop, rouse yeast, etc. But I can see how
people might want to take a more conservative approach.

A quick question: Even when rinsing the emptied homebrew bottles with
hot water (almost boiling) there is visible yeast staining in the
bottom. Slightly milky patches. Does that need to be scrubbed out? Or
should I use some sort of oxygen cleaner or PBW? On bottling day they
all get dunked into StarSan for 2mins or more but not sure if that
suffices for such yeast stains.

StarSan isn't a good cleanser. I'd recommend a passive approach of
soaking in unscented (not regular) oxy cleaner overnight and then
rinsing really well. It's possible it's not yeast and it's something
else like hop residue, other trub, but it's still worth getting it out
of there. If soaking doesn't work, then scrub and rinse really well.

[Joerg]

Post by Howard

The white-knuckle part will be schlepping the scaldingly hot
heavy pot down several deck stairs so I can cool it in the pool.

You can split the batch between two pots. It's a lot easier if you have
to carry it any distance.

Post by Ecnerwal
... Long before I understood this stuff, I
used to make "home-made rootbeer" which is basically bottle-bombs
(extract, lots of sugar, a little baking yeast, and bottle it) and
did indeed have some go off, though in hindsight a lot fewer than I
might expect now. I've taken a position of excessive care to avoid
them with real beer.

Root beer is one of the beverages that can make me sick just looking
at it. I can't stand it.
But we did have numerous ale bottles grenade on us when I brewed 35
years ago with some buddies. Aside from being impatient a contributing
factor might have been that we enjoyed the beer from the previous
batch a bit much while brewing and bottling.

Post by Ecnerwal
Over-checking gravity just means giving other things more
opportunities to get into the beer.

True. I only check right before pitching the yeast and then before
bottling. My first batch had dropped from 1.042 to to 1.012 on the
hygrometer and no more bubbles so that sounded safe.

One option is to put a few quarts in a mini fermenter -- you can just
use a big jar with a slightly loosened lid -- which you use for hydro
tests. It should ferment at the same rate as the main one as long as
they're kept together, and if it gets an infection it will be isolated
from the main batch.
It's probably worth doing a final check on the main batch before
bottling. Once the main batch is bottled, you can just add the smaller
batch to the bottling bucket with a proportional amount of sugar.
Obviously, don't add it back into the main batch before bottling.
I don't do this, to be honest, and I've gotten a lot more relaxed about
opening my fermenter multiple times during fermentation to top crop
yeast, take hydro samples, dry hop, rouse yeast, etc. But I can see how
people might want to take a more conservative approach.

I'll just give it a full two weeks in the fermenter. By that time it
ought to be really done and I can double-check with the hydrometer.

Post by Howard

A quick question: Even when rinsing the emptied homebrew bottles with
hot water (almost boiling) there is visible yeast staining in the
bottom. Slightly milky patches. Does that need to be scrubbed out? Or
should I use some sort of oxygen cleaner or PBW? On bottling day they
all get dunked into StarSan for 2mins or more but not sure if that
suffices for such yeast stains.

StarSan isn't a good cleanser. I'd recommend a passive approach of
soaking in unscented (not regular) oxy cleaner overnight and then
rinsing really well. It's possible it's not yeast and it's something
else like hop residue, other trub, but it's still worth getting it out
of there. If soaking doesn't work, then scrub and rinse really well.

Could be something else. There was an oxy-something coming with the
brewing kit from Midwest which I could use.

[baloonon]

Post by Joerg

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by Joerg
Minor issue: We do not use A/C so it can get up to 85F in the house.
Store-bought beer does not seem to mind and we had only one bottle
grenade on us in years when it went to almost 90F. Is homebrew
going to be happy when stored at such high temperatures?

Not having grenades has almost nothing to do with temperature - it
has to do with completing fermentation and throughly mixing priming
sugar (or otherwise distributing it correctly, such as primetabs.)

That's true, and I think you can also add infection to those two causes
when bottles aren't well cleaned or sanitized.

On the topic of completing fermentation, there are some English yeasts
(1968 is one) which can quit working in the fermenter, but then
reactivate like crazy when bottled and exposed to priming sugar, and it
takes some careful tending in the fermenter to make sure they're not
just playing possum.

Post by Joerg
I waited the full two weeks for fermentation on be really complete,
then bottled. Priming was with the usual 5oz of sugar for 5gal of
beer. The loudness of the pop of the Grolsch bottle was about the
same as with the original Grolsch beer in there so everything
seems normal.

5 oz of sugar sounds high to me -- I know that's recommended for a few
types, but I'd say you should think about dialing that back some. Maybe
read around to see if others suggest less for similar recipes.

Post by Joerg
The beer is a tad cloudy but tastes good.

Good to hear. At some point in the future it might be worth
experimenting with gelatin fining, which is a simple and cheap thing to
do. Cloudiness isn't a big deal in general, though.

What was the recipe, more or less?

Post by Joerg

Post by Ecnerwal
While a nice beer cave would be ideal, it should not blow up at any
normal house temperature, and if it does, it wasn't the temperature
to blame. My storage is that warm or warmer at times, no explosions.

I agree. It's possible that the quality may degrade faster at higher
temps, but I would guess that's not an issue in general for beers that
are gone in a few months. And others that change might not go bad, just
end up different.

Post by Joerg
So I take it that moving the bottles into the cabinet and being
exposed to 85F or so is ok. I'll try that when the new set of
ingredients is here which is when I'd brew and need that
downstairs fridge again.

If temps spike really high, it ought to be easy to stick them in a
couple of coolers with some ice packs that get swapped out every few
days. Or glue some styrofoam inside a cardboard box and store the beer
with some frozen bottles of water. It's also easy to improvise a swamp
cooler to reduce temps by evaporation, if you google around for ideas.

[Ecnerwal]

Post by baloonon
If temps spike really high, it ought to be easy to stick them in a
couple of coolers with some ice packs that get swapped out every few
days. Or glue some styrofoam inside a cardboard box and store the beer
with some frozen bottles of water. It's also easy to improvise a swamp
cooler to reduce temps by evaporation, if you google around for ideas.

Now that WAF (wife approval factor, of course) is in Jeorg's favor, a
couple of chest freezers with temperature controllers should be an easy
step down the slippery slope. Or the old "make a walk in refrigerator
(or beer cave) with an insulated room and an air conditioner" trick,
even if the HOUSE isn't air conditioned.

WAF is a huge enabler.

The room/cave is easier on the back than lifting things into and out of
chest freezers, plus there's more room...

[Joerg]

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by baloonon
If temps spike really high, it ought to be easy to stick them in a
couple of coolers with some ice packs that get swapped out every few
days. Or glue some styrofoam inside a cardboard box and store the beer
with some frozen bottles of water. It's also easy to improvise a swamp
cooler to reduce temps by evaporation, if you google around for ideas.

Now that WAF (wife approval factor, of course) is in Jeorg's favor, a
couple of chest freezers with temperature controllers should be an easy
step down the slippery slope. Or the old "make a walk in refrigerator
(or beer cave) with an insulated room and an air conditioner" trick,
even if the HOUSE isn't air conditioned.

If the 60 year old Bosch downstairs ever gives up I'll replace it with a
taller unit like this:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Frigidaire-16-7-cu-ft-Freezerless-Refrigerator-in-White-FFRU17B2QW/205556875

Provided it has an old-fashioned mechanical thermostat that I can simply
override with my external controller. Hoever, chances are the Bosch
fridge will live almost forever despite being a 230V/50Hz model where
the compressor doesn't like our 60Hz.

Post by Ecnerwal
WAF is a huge enabler.
The room/cave is easier on the back than lifting things into and out of
chest freezers, plus there's more room...

A true man cave like that would be nice but unless I build a shed (which
I really don't want to do) there isn't space for this.

[Bob F]

Post by Joerg
If the 60 year old Bosch downstairs ever gives up I'll replace it with a
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Frigidaire-16-7-cu-ft-Freezerless-Refrigerator-in-White-FFRU17B2QW/205556875
Provided it has an old-fashioned mechanical thermostat that I can simply
override with my external controller. Hoever, chances are the Bosch
fridge will live almost forever despite being a 230V/50Hz model where
the compressor doesn't like our 60Hz.

Find a freebie "newer" fridge, and you'll probably save a lot on
electricity. Anything made after 1993 should make a big difference.
Calculator here:

https://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=refrig.calculator

[Joerg]

Post by Bob F

Post by Joerg
If the 60 year old Bosch downstairs ever gives up I'll replace it with a
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Frigidaire-16-7-cu-ft-Freezerless-Refrigerator-in-White-FFRU17B2QW/205556875
Provided it has an old-fashioned mechanical thermostat that I can simply
override with my external controller. Hoever, chances are the Bosch
fridge will live almost forever despite being a 230V/50Hz model where
the compressor doesn't like our 60Hz.

Find a freebie "newer" fridge, and you'll probably save a lot on
electricity. Anything made after 1993 should make a big difference.
https://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=refrig.calculator

This one is quite economical. I once measured and compared it with a
modern fridge. It has very thick insulation. I am not going to part with
this good old 1956 Bosch fridge.

Also, we have a tax on disposing old fridges which is pretty steep. Plus
another tax on buying one. And so on. Pretty soon any potential energy
savings evaporate. I only need to cool to about 68F which doesn't
require much energy anyhow.

[Bob F]

Post by Joerg

Post by Bob F

Post by Joerg
If the 60 year old Bosch downstairs ever gives up I'll replace it with a
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Frigidaire-16-7-cu-ft-Freezerless-Refrigerator-in-White-FFRU17B2QW/205556875
Provided it has an old-fashioned mechanical thermostat that I can simply
override with my external controller. Hoever, chances are the Bosch
fridge will live almost forever despite being a 230V/50Hz model where
the compressor doesn't like our 60Hz.

Find a freebie "newer" fridge, and you'll probably save a lot on
electricity. Anything made after 1993 should make a big difference.
https://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=refrig.calculator

This one is quite economical. I once measured and compared it with a
modern fridge. It has very thick insulation. I am not going to part with
this good old 1956 Bosch fridge.
Also, we have a tax on disposing old fridges which is pretty steep. Plus
another tax on buying one. And so on. Pretty soon any potential energy
savings evaporate. I only need to cool to about 68F which doesn't
require much energy anyhow.

My utility actually paid me $30 to take away my old fridge when I
replaced it with a more efficient freebie I found on Craigslist.

[Joerg]

Post by Bob F

Post by Joerg

Post by Bob F

Post by Joerg
If the 60 year old Bosch downstairs ever gives up I'll replace it with a
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Frigidaire-16-7-cu-ft-Freezerless-Refrigerator-in-White-FFRU17B2QW/205556875
Provided it has an old-fashioned mechanical thermostat that I can simply
override with my external controller. Hoever, chances are the Bosch
fridge will live almost forever despite being a 230V/50Hz model where
the compressor doesn't like our 60Hz.

Find a freebie "newer" fridge, and you'll probably save a lot on
electricity. Anything made after 1993 should make a big difference.
https://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=refrig.calculator

This one is quite economical. I once measured and compared it with a
modern fridge. It has very thick insulation. I am not going to part with
this good old 1956 Bosch fridge.
Also, we have a tax on disposing old fridges which is pretty steep. Plus
another tax on buying one. And so on. Pretty soon any potential energy
savings evaporate. I only need to cool to about 68F which doesn't
require much energy anyhow.

My utility actually paid me $30 to take away my old fridge when I
replaced it with a more efficient freebie I found on Craigslist.

Lucky you. Here the waste collection folks charge $35 AFAIK. In the end
the difference is so small that it doesn't matter. This fridge is only
temporarily used for overflow goods after a large shopping trip or when
many guests are over. Now it has the 2nd and less temporary job of
holding fermentation and carbonation temperatures. Since that is only a
few degrees below ambient the compressor comes on rarely. During those
times it runs on this thermostat connected at the 230V side via a
UK-Germany adapter:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V4TJR00

[Joerg]

Post by baloonon

Post by Joerg

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by Joerg
Minor issue: We do not use A/C so it can get up to 85F in the house.
Store-bought beer does not seem to mind and we had only one bottle
grenade on us in years when it went to almost 90F. Is homebrew
going to be happy when stored at such high temperatures?

Not having grenades has almost nothing to do with temperature - it
has to do with completing fermentation and throughly mixing priming
sugar (or otherwise distributing it correctly, such as primetabs.)

That's true, and I think you can also add infection to those two causes
when bottles aren't well cleaned or sanitized.
On the topic of completing fermentation, there are some English yeasts
(1968 is one) which can quit working in the fermenter, but then
reactivate like crazy when bottled and exposed to priming sugar, and it
takes some careful tending in the fermenter to make sure they're not
just playing possum.

Oh, that's sneaky behavior on the part of the yeast.

Post by baloonon

Post by Joerg
I waited the full two weeks for fermentation on be really complete,
then bottled. Priming was with the usual 5oz of sugar for 5gal of
beer. The loudness of the pop of the Grolsch bottle was about the
same as with the original Grolsch beer in there so everything
seems normal.

5 oz of sugar sounds high to me -- I know that's recommended for a few
types, but I'd say you should think about dialing that back some. Maybe
read around to see if others suggest less for similar recipes.

Post by Joerg
The beer is a tad cloudy but tastes good.

Good to hear. At some point in the future it might be worth
experimenting with gelatin fining, which is a simple and cheap thing to
do. Cloudiness isn't a big deal in general, though.
What was the recipe, more or less?

It was "Front Porch Pale Ale", an extract kit that came with the brew
equipment kit from Midwest Supplies. Extract, specialty grains (steeped
in at about 160F), Cascade hops.

Post by baloonon

Post by Joerg

Post by Ecnerwal
While a nice beer cave would be ideal, it should not blow up at any
normal house temperature, and if it does, it wasn't the temperature
to blame. My storage is that warm or warmer at times, no explosions.

I agree. It's possible that the quality may degrade faster at higher
temps, but I would guess that's not an issue in general for beers that
are gone in a few months. And others that change might not go bad, just
end up different.

Post by Joerg
So I take it that moving the bottles into the cabinet and being
exposed to 85F or so is ok. I'll try that when the new set of
ingredients is here which is when I'd brew and need that
downstairs fridge again.

If temps spike really high, it ought to be easy to stick them in a
couple of coolers with some ice packs that get swapped out every few
days. Or glue some styrofoam inside a cardboard box and store the beer
with some frozen bottles of water. It's also easy to improvise a swamp
cooler to reduce temps by evaporation, if you google around for ideas.

It's tough here because heat waves can last several weeks.