Yeast cake harvesting

[Joerg]

On advice of folks in this group I took about 1/3rd of the yeast cake
from a Cream Ale and used it to ferment a Stout. Result were a bit mixed.

The fermentation kicked off alright around 6h after pitching. The air
lock activity wasn't quite as pronounced as with fresh dry US-05 yeast
and certainly not as powerful as with the T58 yeast in the Belgian
Witbier started around the same time.

Air lock activity continued for 13 days and this morning I racked off to
secondary. The Stout already tastes good but the hydrometer shows 1.015
which I think is a tad high for 13 days. I'll leave it in secondary for
another 10 days, maybe longer if it continues bubbling.

Question: Is such a slow fermentation normal when using yeast cake?

Tomorrow I am going to brew an Irish Red and Saturday an IPA but I think
this time I'll use fresh Safale US-05 dry yeast again. I salvaged the
yeast cake from the Stout but concerned it may be tired. Also a bit
dark, of course. It won't go to waste since we will make "trub bread"
from it. Same for the T58 yeast cake tomorrow when I bottle the Witbier.
Should result in four nice big loaves of bread that tastes similar to
German sourdough.

[baloonon]

Post by Joerg
On advice of folks in this group I took about 1/3rd of the yeast cake
from a Cream Ale and used it to ferment a Stout. Result were a bit mixed.
The fermentation kicked off alright around 6h after pitching. The air
lock activity wasn't quite as pronounced as with fresh dry US-05 yeast
and certainly not as powerful as with the T58 yeast in the Belgian
Witbier started around the same time.
Air lock activity continued for 13 days and this morning I racked
off to secondary. The Stout already tastes good but the hydrometer
shows 1.015 which I think is a tad high for 13 days. I'll leave it
in secondary for another 10 days, maybe longer if it continues
bubbling.

Depending on the recipe, 015 might be fine. Some recipes also take a
good bit longer to finish.

Post by Joerg
Question: Is such a slow fermentation normal when using yeast cake?

Which third of the trub did you use? It's worth taking a look at some
illustrations because some yeasts and some recipes may result in the top
third being mostly crud with the yeast below.

If it started fermenting fast, though, odds are that it was fine, and if
it is a stuck fermentation there may be other things going on. It may
well just need some nudging to finish up. Check the calibration of the
hydrometer too, since they can be wrong.

[Joerg]

Post by baloonon

Post by Joerg
On advice of folks in this group I took about 1/3rd of the yeast cake
from a Cream Ale and used it to ferment a Stout. Result were a bit mixed.
The fermentation kicked off alright around 6h after pitching. The air
lock activity wasn't quite as pronounced as with fresh dry US-05 yeast
and certainly not as powerful as with the T58 yeast in the Belgian
Witbier started around the same time.
Air lock activity continued for 13 days and this morning I racked
off to secondary. The Stout already tastes good but the hydrometer
shows 1.015 which I think is a tad high for 13 days. I'll leave it
in secondary for another 10 days, maybe longer if it continues
bubbling.

Depending on the recipe, 015 might be fine. Some recipes also take a
good bit longer to finish.

Post by Joerg
Question: Is such a slow fermentation normal when using yeast cake?

Which third of the trub did you use? It's worth taking a look at some
illustrations because some yeasts and some recipes may result in the top
third being mostly crud with the yeast below.

I tried to ladle it out in fairly equal distributions. The yeast cake
was quite dry because I slurped off all the beer when racking.

Post by baloonon
If it started fermenting fast, though, odds are that it was fine, and if
it is a stuck fermentation there may be other things going on. It may
well just need some nudging to finish up. Check the calibration of the
hydrometer too, since they can be wrong.

The hydrometer is one for aquariums and so far has always been on the
money. Showed whatever the recipe said it should as OG and the FG was
under 1.012.

Well, I finished up some business work early today, so I have just
enough time to brew the Irish Red now. Waiting for the water to get to
155F. I always thought that those wireless meat thermometers were just a
gadget but not anymore since I started brewing. It allows me to clean up
the office while steeping grains.

[rb]

snip

Post by Joerg
Well, I finished up some business work early today, so I have just
enough time to brew the Irish Red now. Waiting for the water to get to
155F. I always thought that those wireless meat thermometers were just a
gadget but not anymore since I started brewing. It allows me to clean up
the office while steeping grains.

How much does a packet of S-05 or T-58 cost you?
How much do the rest of the ingredients cost you?
Discuss...
I understand the interest in re-using yeast cakes from prior
fermentations. I was there once. Now I am old and lazier. $2 for a
satchet of yeast plus $20 + for all the ingredients.....
If it was a liquid yeast that I'd had to climb mountains to get to and
sweat blood to find which had given me magical fermentations of ethereal
nectar then I might consider re-using a yeast cake.
S-05 & T-58 aint that.
rb

[Dan Logcher]

Post by rb
snip

Post by Joerg
Well, I finished up some business work early today, so I have just
enough time to brew the Irish Red now. Waiting for the water to get to
155F. I always thought that those wireless meat thermometers were just a
gadget but not anymore since I started brewing. It allows me to clean up
the office while steeping grains.

How much does a packet of S-05 or T-58 cost you?
How much do the rest of the ingredients cost you?
Discuss...
I understand the interest in re-using yeast cakes from prior fermentations. I was there once. Now I
am old and lazier. $2 for a satchet of yeast plus $20 + for all the ingredients.....
If it was a liquid yeast that I'd had to climb mountains to get to and sweat blood to find which had
given me magical fermentations of ethereal nectar then I might consider re-using a yeast cake.
S-05 & T-58 aint that.

Sometimes its not always about cost. Its all part of the science of brewing.

[Joerg]

Post by Dan Logcher

Post by rb
snip

Post by Joerg
Well, I finished up some business work early today, so I have just
enough time to brew the Irish Red now. Waiting for the water to get to
155F. I always thought that those wireless meat thermometers were just a
gadget but not anymore since I started brewing. It allows me to clean up
the office while steeping grains.

How much does a packet of S-05 or T-58 cost you?
How much do the rest of the ingredients cost you?
Discuss...
I understand the interest in re-using yeast cakes from prior
fermentations. I was there once. Now I
am old and lazier. $2 for a satchet of yeast plus $20 + for all the ingredients.....

A 11.5 gram packet of Safale US-05 costs $4 at Midwest. Similar at the
local brew shop.

The rest usually costs $20-$35 for a 5-gallon batch.

Post by Dan Logcher

Post by rb
If it was a liquid yeast that I'd had to climb mountains to get to and
sweat blood to find which had
given me magical fermentations of ethereal nectar then I might
consider re-using a yeast cake.
S-05 & T-58 aint that.

Sometimes its not always about cost. Its all part of the science of brewing.

Yes, it was meant as an experiment. Some day one might want to harvest a
specialty yeast from a bottle and cultivate that.

Today it's bottling time for the Belgian Witbier and then another IPA
needs to be brewed because we are now running low on IPA. And time for
the air lock on the Irish Red to start bubbling ...

[Joerg]

Post by Joerg
On advice of folks in this group I took about 1/3rd of the yeast cake
from a Cream Ale and used it to ferment a Stout. Result were a bit mixed.
The fermentation kicked off alright around 6h after pitching. The air
lock activity wasn't quite as pronounced as with fresh dry US-05 yeast
and certainly not as powerful as with the T58 yeast in the Belgian
Witbier started around the same time.
Air lock activity continued for 13 days and this morning I racked off to
secondary. The Stout already tastes good but the hydrometer shows 1.015
which I think is a tad high for 13 days. I'll leave it in secondary for
another 10 days, maybe longer if it continues bubbling.
Question: Is such a slow fermentation normal when using yeast cake?
Tomorrow I am going to brew an Irish Red and Saturday an IPA but I think
this time I'll use fresh Safale US-05 dry yeast again. I salvaged the
yeast cake from the Stout but concerned it may be tired. Also a bit
dark, of course. It won't go to waste since we will make "trub bread"
from it. Same for the T58 yeast cake tomorrow when I bottle the Witbier.
Should result in four nice big loaves of bread that tastes similar to
German sourdough.

Yesterday I did another experiment. I racked an Irish Red Ale to
secondary, harvested the trub, all of it into two glass jars. The yeast
was Safale US-05. This time I took half the harvested yeast, without
cleaning, just slopped the top of one of the jars into a freshly brewed
Pale Ale ... and ... KABLAM. After one (!) hour the air lock came on.
Glugg .. burp ... brrrupp. After another two hours it was going full
tilt. I never had a beer perform such a Speedy Gonzalez start.

Way fasters than during the previous attempt with the Stout. The only
other difference was that I now did a full volume boil because I
obtained a much larger kettle.

As usual the remaining trub and that in the other glass won't go to
waste but will be turned into delicious trub bread.

The Stout that I fermented with harvested Cream Ale trub turned out
good. I racked off from secondary yesterday and sure enough the last
bottle filled only 2/3rd. So I drank it :-)

FYI: Midwest online doesn't allow no-yeast orders. It does take the cost
of the yeast out if de-selecting it but then won't add the recipe kit to
the shopping cart. So I called and they said they can take the yeast out
of a kit via phone (but not on their Simply Beer kits).