Weird air bubble problem with "rack filter"

[Joerg]

In order to keep those dreaded flakes of dried kraeusen and other gunk
out of the finished beer I tried a muslin bag over the racking cane for
the first time yesterday on an Irish Red Ale. Like a sock,
rubber-banded, all sanitized of course.

It kept the kraeusen flakes out alright. However, to my surprise this
resulted in a constant stream of tiny air bubbles racing through the
hose and into the bottling bucket. Lots of bubbles. Generally not a good
thing to have aeration in the bottles.

Why is that?

[Bob F]

Post by Joerg
In order to keep those dreaded flakes of dried kraeusen and other gunk
out of the finished beer I tried a muslin bag over the racking cane for
the first time yesterday on an Irish Red Ale. Like a sock,
rubber-banded, all sanitized of course.
It kept the kraeusen flakes out alright. However, to my surprise this
resulted in a constant stream of tiny air bubbles racing through the
hose and into the bottling bucket. Lots of bubbles. Generally not a good
thing to have aeration in the bottles.
Why is that?

Air bubbles, or CO2 bubbles?

[Joerg]

Post by Bob F

Post by Joerg
In order to keep those dreaded flakes of dried kraeusen and other gunk
out of the finished beer I tried a muslin bag over the racking cane
for the first time yesterday on an Irish Red Ale. Like a sock,
rubber-banded, all sanitized of course.
It kept the kraeusen flakes out alright. However, to my surprise this
resulted in a constant stream of tiny air bubbles racing through the
hose and into the bottling bucket. Lots of bubbles. Generally not a
good thing to have aeration in the bottles.
Why is that?

Air bubbles, or CO2 bubbles?

Good point, I don't know. However, fermentation activity had completely
petered out and it came from secondary fermentation into the bottling
bucket.

[Ecnerwal]

Post by Joerg

Post by Bob F

Post by Joerg
In order to keep those dreaded flakes of dried kraeusen and other gunk
out of the finished beer I tried a muslin bag over the racking cane
for the first time yesterday on an Irish Red Ale. Like a sock,
rubber-banded, all sanitized of course.
It kept the kraeusen flakes out alright. However, to my surprise this
resulted in a constant stream of tiny air bubbles racing through the
hose and into the bottling bucket. Lots of bubbles. Generally not a
good thing to have aeration in the bottles.
Why is that?

Air bubbles, or CO2 bubbles?

Good point, I don't know. However, fermentation activity had completely
petered out and it came from secondary fermentation into the bottling
bucket.

Even when fermentation is done, the beer is saturated with CO2 in the
fermenter. When you siphon, the beer in the high part of the tube is
under less pressure, and is thus briefly supersaturated in its transit.
The mesh bag may be encouraging bubbles to nucleate. They won't be air.

[Joerg]

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by Joerg

Post by Bob F

Post by Joerg
In order to keep those dreaded flakes of dried kraeusen and other gunk
out of the finished beer I tried a muslin bag over the racking cane
for the first time yesterday on an Irish Red Ale. Like a sock,
rubber-banded, all sanitized of course.
It kept the kraeusen flakes out alright. However, to my surprise this
resulted in a constant stream of tiny air bubbles racing through the
hose and into the bottling bucket. Lots of bubbles. Generally not a
good thing to have aeration in the bottles.
Why is that?

Air bubbles, or CO2 bubbles?

Good point, I don't know. However, fermentation activity had completely
petered out and it came from secondary fermentation into the bottling
bucket.

Even when fermentation is done, the beer is saturated with CO2 in the
fermenter. When you siphon, the beer in the high part of the tube is
under less pressure, and is thus briefly supersaturated in its transit.
The mesh bag may be encouraging bubbles to nucleate. They won't be air.

Whew. Thanks, that is good to know. It also means I can use the muslin
bag again. It really helps avoiding gunk getting into the beer.

[Tom Biasi]

Post by Bob F

Post by Joerg
In order to keep those dreaded flakes of dried kraeusen and other gunk
out of the finished beer I tried a muslin bag over the racking cane
for the first time yesterday on an Irish Red Ale. Like a sock,
rubber-banded, all sanitized of course.
It kept the kraeusen flakes out alright. However, to my surprise this
resulted in a constant stream of tiny air bubbles racing through the
hose and into the bottling bucket. Lots of bubbles. Generally not a
good thing to have aeration in the bottles.
Why is that?

Air bubbles, or CO2 bubbles?

My thoughts also Bob. If the end of the cane is submerged I don't see
how it could be air.

[Bill O'Meally]

Post by Joerg
In order to keep those dreaded flakes of dried kraeusen and other gunk
out of the finished beer I tried a muslin bag over the racking cane for
the first time yesterday on an Irish Red Ale. Like a sock,
rubber-banded, all sanitized of course.
It kept the kraeusen flakes out alright. However, to my surprise this
resulted in a constant stream of tiny air bubbles racing through the
hose and into the bottling bucket. Lots of bubbles. Generally not a
good thing to have aeration in the bottles.
Why is that?

I also tried this technique last night for my blueberry blond, in
attempt to keep the berries out of the tertiary fermenter (blueberries
were in the secondary). About 2/3 of the way through racking I started
to encounter air bubbles, and I thought of your post. They became more
and more problematic as the racking continued, continually breaking the
siphon.

I am afraid that this was indeed air and not CO2, at least in my case.
I think the top part of the bag that emerged above the liquid acted as
a wick pulling air into my beer. I was essentially aerating as I
racked. Not a good thing. How did yours turn out Joerg? Any signs of
oxidation?

[Joerg]

Post by Bill O'Meally

Post by Joerg
In order to keep those dreaded flakes of dried kraeusen and other gunk
out of the finished beer I tried a muslin bag over the racking cane
for the first time yesterday on an Irish Red Ale. Like a sock,
rubber-banded, all sanitized of course.
It kept the kraeusen flakes out alright. However, to my surprise this
resulted in a constant stream of tiny air bubbles racing through the
hose and into the bottling bucket. Lots of bubbles. Generally not a
good thing to have aeration in the bottles.
Why is that?

I also tried this technique last night for my blueberry blond, in
attempt to keep the berries out of the tertiary fermenter (blueberries
were in the secondary). About 2/3 of the way through racking I started
to encounter air bubbles, and I thought of your post. They became more
and more problematic as the racking continued, continually breaking the
siphon.
I am afraid that this was indeed air and not CO2, at least in my case. I
think the top part of the bag that emerged above the liquid acted as a
wick pulling air into my beer. I was essentially aerating as I racked.
Not a good thing. How did yours turn out Joerg? Any signs of oxidation?

Not sure yet, it was an Amber Ale that is still carbonating. It'll be
done this week and I'll let you know. The bubbles in my case were all
tiny but there were lots of them, almost like right after pouring a
glass of champagne.

[Bill O'Meally]

Post by Joerg
Not sure yet, it was an Amber Ale that is still carbonating. It'll be
done this week and I'll let you know. The bubbles in my case were all
tiny but there were lots of them, almost like right after pouring a
glass of champagne.

Fingers crossed.... for both of us!

[Joerg]

Post by Bill O'Meally

Post by Joerg
Not sure yet, it was an Amber Ale that is still carbonating. It'll be
done this week and I'll let you know. The bubbles in my case were all
tiny but there were lots of them, almost like right after pouring a
glass of champagne.

Fingers crossed.... for both of us!

My wife put one in the fridge yesterday as the computer said carbonation
would be finished today. It had normal carbonation, tasted like the
previous Autumn Amber Ales, might be a tad lighter on the ABV but that's
hard to say because we drank up the ones I could have compared to. So
maybe Bob, Tom and Lawrence are right and it was CO2.

I know, it's not autumn anymore but we like that beer.

In a couple of weeks I'll have to dry-hop a beer again in secondary.
Thinking how to avoid hop fuzz floating in the beer I might put the hops
in a muslin bag. Not sure how to fasten it so it won't sink to the
bottom. Or maybe I just let it and fish it out after racking off. I
don't want to drill another hole into the carboy lid for a hook because
that stuff will eventually start corroding or gunking up.

[baloonon]

Post by Joerg
In a couple of weeks I'll have to dry-hop a beer again in secondary.
Thinking how to avoid hop fuzz floating in the beer I might put the hops
in a muslin bag. Not sure how to fasten it so it won't sink to the
bottom. Or maybe I just let it and fish it out after racking off. I
don't want to drill another hole into the carboy lid for a hook because
that stuff will eventually start corroding or gunking up.

If you want to fish it out, you can just tie a piece of string to the bag
and dangle part of it out of the fermenter so that it's held in place when
you close the lid or put in the stopper. Sanitize the string at the same
time as the bag, of course.

[Joerg]

Post by baloonon

Post by Joerg
In a couple of weeks I'll have to dry-hop a beer again in secondary.
Thinking how to avoid hop fuzz floating in the beer I might put the hops
in a muslin bag. Not sure how to fasten it so it won't sink to the
bottom. Or maybe I just let it and fish it out after racking off. I
don't want to drill another hole into the carboy lid for a hook because
that stuff will eventually start corroding or gunking up.

If you want to fish it out, you can just tie a piece of string to the bag
and dangle part of it out of the fermenter so that it's held in place when
you close the lid or put in the stopper. Sanitize the string at the same
time as the bag, of course.

Doesn't work here because I am using the blueish 5-gallon water cooler
bottles as carboys for secondary. Those have screw caps.

Maybe I'll drill a hole sideways through the bottom section of the air
lock, the part that is inside the carboy. I'd just have to figure out a
way how to deburr it inside and get all the PVC shards out. Then I could
affix a sanitized rope there.

[baloonon]

Post by Joerg

Post by baloonon

Post by Joerg
In a couple of weeks I'll have to dry-hop a beer again in secondary.
Thinking how to avoid hop fuzz floating in the beer I might put the
hops in a muslin bag. Not sure how to fasten it so it won't sink to
the bottom. Or maybe I just let it and fish it out after racking
off. I don't want to drill another hole into the carboy lid for a
hook because that stuff will eventually start corroding or gunking
up.

If you want to fish it out, you can just tie a piece of string to the
bag and dangle part of it out of the fermenter so that it's held in
place when you close the lid or put in the stopper. Sanitize the
string at the same time as the bag, of course.

Doesn't work here because I am using the blueish 5-gallon water cooler
bottles as carboys for secondary. Those have screw caps.

You can always just cover the top with sanitized foil, plastic wrap,
that kind of thing. Assuming you're not keeping them in a barnyard,
they don't need to be covered with anything perfectly fitting at that
point. Tie the string to the neck and you're good to go.

[Joerg]

Post by baloonon

Post by Joerg

Post by baloonon

Post by Joerg
In a couple of weeks I'll have to dry-hop a beer again in
secondary. Thinking how to avoid hop fuzz floating in the beer
I might put the hops in a muslin bag. Not sure how to fasten it
so it won't sink to the bottom. Or maybe I just let it and fish
it out after racking off. I don't want to drill another hole
into the carboy lid for a hook because that stuff will
eventually start corroding or gunking up.

If you want to fish it out, you can just tie a piece of string to
the bag and dangle part of it out of the fermenter so that it's
held in place when you close the lid or put in the stopper.
Sanitize the string at the same time as the bag, of course.

Doesn't work here because I am using the blueish 5-gallon water
cooler bottles as carboys for secondary. Those have screw caps.

You can always just cover the top with sanitized foil, plastic wrap,
that kind of thing. Assuming you're not keeping them in a barnyard,
they don't need to be covered with anything perfectly fitting at
that point. Tie the string to the neck and you're good to go.

Sans air lock? Maybe I should try that.

Back to the brew kettle now. For the first time I am brewing in the
rain. It wasn't planned and I was brewing under a deck. Then it began to
rain and after an hour it came through the deck. I tried to keep the
lids on the cooled kettle and fermenter during racking. Hopefully the
Cream Ale didn't become contaminated. This afternoon I am doing another
Belgian Tripel but first I laid some tarp on the deck so it won't rain
through on my stuff.

[Bill O'Meally]

Post by Joerg
In a couple of weeks I'll have to dry-hop a beer again in secondary.
Thinking how to avoid hop fuzz floating in the beer I might put the
hops in a muslin bag. Not sure how to fasten it so it won't sink to the
bottom. Or maybe I just let it and fish it out after racking off. I
don't want to drill another hole into the carboy lid for a hook because
that stuff will eventually start corroding or gunking up.

FWIW, I dry hop in the keg. Hops go in a hop bag with glass marbles in
the bottom and ping ping balls in the top. All sanitized, of course.
The marbles keep the bag from floating on top of the beer, while the
ping pong balls act like fishing bobbers, keeping everything from
eventually sinking, and allowing for easy retrieval.

[Joerg]

Post by Joerg
In a couple of weeks I'll have to dry-hop a beer again in secondary.
Thinking how to avoid hop fuzz floating in the beer I might put the hops
in a muslin bag. Not sure how to fasten it so it won't sink to the
bottom. Or maybe I just let it and fish it out after racking off. I
don't want to drill another hole into the carboy lid for a hook because
that stuff will eventually start corroding or gunking up.
FWIW, I dry hop in the keg. Hops go in a hop bag with glass marbles in
the bottom and ping ping balls in the top. All sanitized, of course. The
marbles keep the bag from floating on top of the beer, while the ping
pong balls act like fishing bobbers, keeping everything from eventually
sinking, and allowing for easy retrieval.

A ping-pong ball can't be retrieved from my carboys but I am going to
look into a cork. Maybe a plastic one which won't become funky and can
be sanitized more easily.

Good idea with the marbles. Now we'll just have to find out whether
there is a taste difference between red marbles and blue marbles :-)