ATTN: Joerg - Recipe Creator software

[D Ash]

I ran across a couple of your posts when you mentioned not being able to
justify buying ((what was it?)) BrewSmith? and got to remembering the old
program I used years ago-- SUDS. It is still available for free with a 20
second nag. I'm not sure if the author is even accepting payments, but the
app is fully functional. I found it here:

http://www.webring.org/l/rd?ring=homebrew;id=5;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%
2Eoldlib%2Ecom%2Fsuds%2F

Not pushing a sale or anything, but it helped me get started formulating my
own recipes and allowed me to get as creative as I wanted to be. Because of
this shareware program, I never once tried a kit.

[Joerg]

Post by D Ash
I ran across a couple of your posts when you mentioned not being able to
justify buying ((what was it?)) BrewSmith? and got to remembering the old
program I used years ago-- SUDS. It is still available for free with a 20
second nag. I'm not sure if the author is even accepting payments, but the
http://www.webring.org/l/rd?ring=homebrew;id=5;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%
2Eoldlib%2Ecom%2Fsuds%2F
Not pushing a sale or anything, but it helped me get started formulating my
own recipes and allowed me to get as creative as I wanted to be. Because of
this shareware program, I never once tried a kit.

Thanks, looks interesting also because there is an Excel version. Two
other free software packages were also mentioned here:

http://www.brewersfriend.com/windows/
http://www.brewtarget.org/

Currently I am still an extract brewer using recipe kits. Have migrated
to full volume boils, next up is a wort chiller, then maybe a BIAB
session since the new pot I just bought has a removable false bottom.
However, I've just ordered nine more extract kits for some more
learning. After those I should have enough experience to start
experimenting with own recipes.

[D Ash]

Post by Joerg

Post by D Ash
I ran across a couple of your posts when you mentioned not being able
to justify buying ((what was it?)) BrewSmith? and got to remembering
the old program I used years ago-- SUDS. It is still available for
free with a 20 second nag. I'm not sure if the author is even
http://www.webring.org/l/rd?ring=homebrew;id=5;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%
2Eoldlib%2Ecom%2Fsuds%2F
Not pushing a sale or anything, but it helped me get started
formulating my own recipes and allowed me to get as creative as I
wanted to be. Because of this shareware program, I never once tried a
kit.

Thanks, looks interesting also because there is an Excel version. Two
http://www.brewersfriend.com/windows/
http://www.brewtarget.org/
Currently I am still an extract brewer using recipe kits. Have
migrated to full volume boils, next up is a wort chiller, then maybe a
BIAB session since the new pot I just bought has a removable false
bottom. However, I've just ordered nine more extract kits for some
more learning. After those I should have enough experience to start
experimenting with own recipes.

Exellent! And you have the equipment you need for that. I've not felt
the need to go all-grain, which I do understand gives the brewer so much
more control and creative wonderfulness. But I equate this hobby to
fishing: One can enjoy catching a fish in a small pond using a bamboo
pole, a hank of string and a bent safety pin. Or one can go all out with
a fly fishing rod and all the scientific information about the type of
hatch, the perfect feather to use to emulate the tiny, quivering wing of
a gnat, etc, etc, etc. I feel that the perfect spot is somewhere right
in the middle-- I'm a 'dry extract with specialty grains' brewer.
Currently awaiting the end results of three brews, one in bottles, one
in secondary and one in primary. After nearly 20 years of no place to
brew. I'm a happy, creative homebrewer, I am!

[Ecnerwal]

Homebrew Formulator (John C Tull and Ken Nussear) was nice, but seems to
have become abandoned-ware, circa 2006. Still runs for me on one of my
older computers, but has some issues. It's on the mac side of the world
and still seems to be getting flogged by shareware/freeware sites.

On the other hand, I started from my first batch creating my own
recipes, and did that quite nicely without any software at all, just my
own beer preferences and a bit of reading.

With very few exceptions (Gambrinus honey malt comes to mind -
drinkable, but that stuff has an odd taste that was not what I was
expecting from the description) every one has come out fine; which is
not to say that I have not refined as I go - that first recipe was the
only one that I've ever used black patent in - I now use absurd amounts
of chocolate malt instead - the flavor is better and the color still
gets there.

[D Ash]

Post by Ecnerwal
With very few exceptions (Gambrinus honey malt comes to mind -
drinkable, but that stuff has an odd taste that was not what I was
expecting from the description) every one has come out fine; which is
not to say that I have not refined as I go - that first recipe was the
only one that I've ever used black patent in - I now use absurd amounts
of chocolate malt instead - the flavor is better and the color still
gets there.

Good to know about the malts. I just used a small amount of black patent
(1/4LB) in a robust porter. The raw taste and the racking sample taste were
okay-- I'm hoping the flavors will meld and mellow by March when this is
supposed to be served at our anniversary. Upping the chocolate malt might
just be a great idea! Thank you.

[Ecnerwal]

Post by D Ash

Post by Ecnerwal
With very few exceptions (Gambrinus honey malt comes to mind -
drinkable, but that stuff has an odd taste that was not what I was
expecting from the description) every one has come out fine; which is
not to say that I have not refined as I go - that first recipe was the
only one that I've ever used black patent in - I now use absurd amounts
of chocolate malt instead - the flavor is better and the color still
gets there.

Good to know about the malts. I just used a small amount of black patent
(1/4LB) in a robust porter. The raw taste and the racking sample taste were
okay-- I'm hoping the flavors will meld and mellow by March when this is
supposed to be served at our anniversary. Upping the chocolate malt might
just be a great idea! Thank you.

It's as much my tastes as anything - folks that follow style guidelines
religiously insist that BP (and its somewhat burnt notes) is required
for certain types of beer. If it's tasted fine so far it will probably
taste fine in March.

I'm into "brew what I like" and have never been into beer-judging and
all it's baggage - and I prefer the taste of ChM. I've put as much as 3
lbs in a 5 gallon batch, though less than that can be perfectly nice (it
was not, for me, "too much".) I was happy with that first batch, but not
in a "I must enshrine this and never change it" way, and the burnt notes
were one of the things I felt did more harm than good, for my tastes.

I have made exactly one batch of yellow beer, just for the heck of it
one summer - everything else I brew is brown-to-black (or mead, cider,
cyser.) I guess I might go there again with a weizen at some point.

[D Ash]

(snippage does occur)

Post by Ecnerwal

by March when this is supposed to be served at our anniversary.
Upping the chocolate malt might just be a great idea! Thank you.

It's as much my tastes as anything - folks that follow style
guidelines religiously insist that BP (and its somewhat burnt notes)
is required for certain types of beer. If it's tasted fine so far it
will probably taste fine in March.

Oh, no worries, really. I made a similar brew regularly back in the late
'80s into the mid-'90s. Always turned out fine, but only if they sat at
the back of the cellar for at least 6 months. Lord, give me patience!

Post by Ecnerwal
I'm into "brew what I like"

Ditto!

Post by Ecnerwal
and have never been into beer-judging and

Bingo!

Post by Ecnerwal
all it's baggage - and I prefer the taste of ChM. I've put as much as
3 lbs in a 5 gallon batch, though less than that can be perfectly nice
(it was not, for me, "too much".) I was happy with that first batch,
but not in a "I must enshrine this and never change it" way, and the
burnt notes were one of the things I felt did more harm than good, for
my tastes.

Yahtzee!

Post by Ecnerwal
I have made exactly one batch of yellow beer, just for the heck of it
one summer - everything else I brew is brown-to-black (or mead, cider,
cyser.) I guess I might go there again with a weizen at some point.

I've never made lighter than deep gold, what I call Golden Elixer. Good
session pale ale, on the darker edge of the SRM scale for the Brit
style. Also a bit hoppier to make up for the amount of specialty grains.
In addition to a pound of 15L crystal malt, I like to add a half pound
to a full pound of Vienna malt that I toast for 15-30 minutes at 350F in
the oven.What I'm trying to get is the 'toasted whole-grain bread'
flavor I crave in a good, malty pale ale. The brown ales and porters are
for SWMBO. Gotta keep her happy, don't chya know.

(a wink and a nod will suffice-- someone pass the bottle opener, please)
((someone brought pretzels?! and we're out of mustard. bummer.))

[baloonon]

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by D Ash

Post by Ecnerwal
With very few exceptions (Gambrinus honey malt comes to mind -
drinkable, but that stuff has an odd taste that was not what I was
expecting from the description) every one has come out fine; which
is not to say that I have not refined as I go - that first recipe
was the only one that I've ever used black patent in - I now use
absurd amounts of chocolate malt instead - the flavor is better and
the color still gets there.

Good to know about the malts. I just used a small amount of black
patent (1/4LB) in a robust porter. The raw taste and the racking
sample taste were okay-- I'm hoping the flavors will meld and mellow
by March when this is supposed to be served at our anniversary.
Upping the chocolate malt might just be a great idea! Thank you.

It's as much my tastes as anything - folks that follow style
guidelines religiously insist that BP (and its somewhat burnt notes)
is required for certain types of beer. If it's tasted fine so far it
will probably taste fine in March.

For what it's worth, this is an interesting piece on black patent malt
and a comparison with roasted barley.

http://brulosophy.com/2016/05/30/roasted-grains-pt-2-roasted-barley-vs-
black-patent-malt-exbeeriment-results/

There's a side by side taste test involving a bunch of people and the
verdict is that they taste the same, with some minor cosmetic
differences.

The recipe involved uses a whopping full pound of either patent or
roasted, with varying opinions of both being either harsh or really
smooth. So obviously personal taste and expectations are what matters.

I've never used that much of either black patent or roasted barley, but
maybe it's worth a shot upping the quantity some time.

By the way, they call the recipe a porter instead of stout, but in so
many cases in the past in the UK the names were used interchangably that
I don't think it matters which name is used. And since a lot of porters
and stouts got darkened with syrups or even caramel color, it's hard to
say that either dark malt is a necessary requirement.

[Derek J Decker]

On Sat, 12 Nov 2016 16:36:28 -0800, Joerg wrote:

<snip>

Post by Joerg
Currently I am still an extract brewer using recipe kits. Have migrated
to full volume boils, next up is a wort chiller, then maybe a BIAB
session since the new pot I just bought has a removable false bottom.
However, I've just ordered nine more extract kits for some more
learning. After those I should have enough experience to start
experimenting with own recipes.

I'm only familiar with BrewTarget - BrewTarget works for extract, partial
extract, and all grain brewing. It might be an interesting and educational
exercise to take the recipes/ingredients bills of the kits you are buying,
enter them into BrewTarget (or the software of your choice) and see what
contributions each ingredient makes to the final beer.

Knowledge gained therein would be helpful when you start crafting your own
recipes. You can also play games like "How would I make this same beer in
all-grain?", and "What happens if I use this other sort of hops?", and, my
personal favorite, "How can I scale this down to brew a single gallon?".

-Derek

[baloonon]

Post by Derek J Decker
<snip>

Post by Joerg
Currently I am still an extract brewer using recipe kits. Have
migrated to full volume boils, next up is a wort chiller, then maybe
a BIAB session since the new pot I just bought has a removable false
bottom. However, I've just ordered nine more extract kits for some
more learning. After those I should have enough experience to start
experimenting with own recipes.

I'm only familiar with BrewTarget - BrewTarget works for extract,
partial extract, and all grain brewing. It might be an interesting and
educational exercise to take the recipes/ingredients bills of the kits
you are buying, enter them into BrewTarget (or the software of your
choice) and see what contributions each ingredient makes to the final
beer.
Knowledge gained therein would be helpful when you start crafting your
own recipes. You can also play games like "How would I make this same
beer in all-grain?", and "What happens if I use this other sort of
hops?", and, my personal favorite, "How can I scale this down to brew
a single gallon?".

I would add that they're also useful for taking notes and keeping
records. The printed recipes that come with kits get stained and torn
and thrown out, and it's hard to annotate them if you make any kind of
mods. Having a program helps keep everything together and consistent
instead of flipping through a bunch of pieces of paper trying to
remember which recipe you liked best.

If you get really worked up about this kind of thing, you can look into
Bru'n Water, which is a spreadsheet that you can download and it will
make recommendations on changing water chemistry, but that tends to get
really deep in the weeds. I do some simple modifications to my water
but nowhere to the detail here.

https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

[Joerg]

Post by Derek J Decker
<snip>

Post by Joerg
Currently I am still an extract brewer using recipe kits. Have migrated
to full volume boils, next up is a wort chiller, then maybe a BIAB
session since the new pot I just bought has a removable false bottom.
However, I've just ordered nine more extract kits for some more
learning. After those I should have enough experience to start
experimenting with own recipes.

I'm only familiar with BrewTarget - BrewTarget works for extract, partial
extract, and all grain brewing. It might be an interesting and educational
exercise to take the recipes/ingredients bills of the kits you are buying,
enter them into BrewTarget (or the software of your choice) and see what
contributions each ingredient makes to the final beer.

That's exactly how I wanted to test the waters. Right now it's just some
yeast experiments where I deviate from the kit instructions. The goal is
BIAB, all grain.

Post by Derek J Decker
Knowledge gained therein would be helpful when you start crafting your own
recipes. You can also play games like "How would I make this same beer in
all-grain?", and "What happens if I use this other sort of hops?", and, my
personal favorite, "How can I scale this down to brew a single gallon?".

I'd probably scale up to close to 6 gallons. The fermenter buckets hold
6-1/2 and one has to be careful. Another brewer out here had an Amber
Ale blow off the lid but after cleaning up the mess the beer came out ok.

[D Ash]

Post by Joerg

Post by Derek J Decker
<snip>

<snippage again>

Post by Joerg
I'd probably scale up to close to 6 gallons. The fermenter buckets
hold 6-1/2 and one has to be careful. Another brewer out here had an
Amber Ale blow off the lid but after cleaning up the mess the beer
came out ok.

For those the ferments which you think might become much stronger than
"vigorous", use a hose of a diameter that will fit tightly in the lid's
bung hole. Curve the other end down to a bucket of water for a blow-off
tube air lock. Then what you lose in foam and trub won't ruin the lid's
seal and thus no worries.

Did this for years when all I had were 5 gallon carboys and trying to
ferment 5 gallon brews. For the fruit ales, I'd put 4 or 5 pounds of fresh,
vine- or tree- ripened berry or fruit juice and pulp-- no skins! --in a
carboy and rack a low ABV pale ale from the fermenter on top of the fruit.
The resulting "vigorous" ferment could resemble a Hawaiian vocano! Several
times I remember having to dump the catch bucket before it could overflow!
Never once had a ferment go sour or become infected using this method.

[Joerg]

Post by D Ash

Post by Joerg

Post by Derek J Decker
<snip>

<snippage again>

Post by Joerg
I'd probably scale up to close to 6 gallons. The fermenter buckets
hold 6-1/2 and one has to be careful. Another brewer out here had an
Amber Ale blow off the lid but after cleaning up the mess the beer
came out ok.

For those the ferments which you think might become much stronger than
"vigorous", use a hose of a diameter that will fit tightly in the lid's
bung hole. Curve the other end down to a bucket of water for a blow-off
tube air lock. Then what you lose in foam and trub won't ruin the lid's
seal and thus no worries.
Did this for years when all I had were 5 gallon carboys and trying to
ferment 5 gallon brews. For the fruit ales, I'd put 4 or 5 pounds of fresh,
vine- or tree- ripened berry or fruit juice and pulp-- no skins! --in a
carboy and rack a low ABV pale ale from the fermenter on top of the fruit.
The resulting "vigorous" ferment could resemble a Hawaiian vocano! Several
times I remember having to dump the catch bucket before it could overflow!
Never once had a ferment go sour or become infected using this method.

I saw that, a large clear "garden hose" plus a bucket with water. Then
my wife would probably say "Oh no, yet another bucket!" :-)

It would be easy to unstall a real garden hose port in the lid and plug
that with a screw-on cap if not needed. I think Gardena makes plastic ones.

Waiting for the IPA, Pale Ale and Stout (that one in secondary) ...