IPA recipe advice?

[baloonon]

Given all of the posts bemoaning the lack of content, I thought I'd start
something.

I'm always tinkering with (American) IPA recipes and haven't found one I
truly love. I'm interested in something that's not super-high IBU or ABV.
For example, I recently tried Boulevard's "The Calling" and Flying Dog's
"Double Dog" and both were just too much -- too bitter, too heavy a body,
too much alcohol. That's my read on a lot of newer IPAs and DIPAs.

Another beef I have with a lot of recipes out there is that they're way too
complicated -- four different types of hops added in six installments
through the boil, and five different kinds of malt.

Can anyone recommend a nice, elegant all grain IPA recipe around 5.5 to 6.5
ABV, around 65 IBU, fairly simple hop schedule? I prefer the more classic
American C hops to the newer more tropical fruit types such as Citra,
although a small contribution is OK. Something in the neighborhood of
Sierra Nevada Celebration, but a bit lighter in the malt and hop bill.

[Tom Biasi]

Post by baloonon
Given all of the posts bemoaning the lack of content, I thought I'd start
something.
I'm always tinkering with (American) IPA recipes and haven't found one I
truly love. I'm interested in something that's not super-high IBU or ABV.
For example, I recently tried Boulevard's "The Calling" and Flying Dog's
"Double Dog" and both were just too much -- too bitter, too heavy a body,
too much alcohol. That's my read on a lot of newer IPAs and DIPAs.
Another beef I have with a lot of recipes out there is that they're way too
complicated -- four different types of hops added in six installments
through the boil, and five different kinds of malt.
Can anyone recommend a nice, elegant all grain IPA recipe around 5.5 to 6.5
ABV, around 65 IBU, fairly simple hop schedule? I prefer the more classic
American C hops to the newer more tropical fruit types such as Citra,
although a small contribution is OK. Something in the neighborhood of
Sierra Nevada Celebration, but a bit lighter in the malt and hop bill.

Please forgive me but with all the restrictions that you cite it sounds
like you don't want an IPA.

[baloonon]

Post by Tom Biasi

Post by baloonon
Given all of the posts bemoaning the lack of content, I thought I'd
start something.
I'm always tinkering with (American) IPA recipes and haven't found
one I truly love. I'm interested in something that's not super-high
IBU or ABV. For example, I recently tried Boulevard's "The Calling"
and Flying Dog's "Double Dog" and both were just too much -- too
bitter, too heavy a body, too much alcohol. That's my read on a lot
of newer IPAs and DIPAs.
Another beef I have with a lot of recipes out there is that they're
way too complicated -- four different types of hops added in six
installments through the boil, and five different kinds of malt.
Can anyone recommend a nice, elegant all grain IPA recipe around 5.5
to 6.5 ABV, around 65 IBU, fairly simple hop schedule? I prefer the
more classic American C hops to the newer more tropical fruit types
such as Citra, although a small contribution is OK. Something in the
neighborhood of Sierra Nevada Celebration, but a bit lighter in the
malt and hop bill.

Please forgive me but with all the restrictions that you cite it
sounds like you don't want an IPA.

Heh. I can see your point. I'd just note that I'm not alone. I had a
feeling that if I googled the phrase IPA arms race I'd find some
fair number of complaints about IPAs getting wildly overhopped and over
alcoholed, and sure enough, googling just this minute, they're out there
using exactly that phrase.

I'm sure the pendulum will never swing all the way back to the way
things were a few decades ago in England before the modern US IPA when
IPAs might be barely (or not at all) indistinguishable from a basic
bitter, with ABVs down in the 3s. But I think a variety of factors are
going to get the standard to shift back toward a 5.5 to 6.5 ABV, 60-70
IBU beer with classic American C hops. We'll see.

[Tom Biasi]

Post by baloonon

Post by Tom Biasi

Post by baloonon
Given all of the posts bemoaning the lack of content, I thought I'd
start something.
I'm always tinkering with (American) IPA recipes and haven't found
one I truly love. I'm interested in something that's not super-high
IBU or ABV. For example, I recently tried Boulevard's "The Calling"
and Flying Dog's "Double Dog" and both were just too much -- too
bitter, too heavy a body, too much alcohol. That's my read on a lot
of newer IPAs and DIPAs.
Another beef I have with a lot of recipes out there is that they're
way too complicated -- four different types of hops added in six
installments through the boil, and five different kinds of malt.
Can anyone recommend a nice, elegant all grain IPA recipe around 5.5
to 6.5 ABV, around 65 IBU, fairly simple hop schedule? I prefer the
more classic American C hops to the newer more tropical fruit types
such as Citra, although a small contribution is OK. Something in the
neighborhood of Sierra Nevada Celebration, but a bit lighter in the
malt and hop bill.

Please forgive me but with all the restrictions that you cite it
sounds like you don't want an IPA.

Heh. I can see your point. I'd just note that I'm not alone. I had a
feeling that if I googled the phrase IPA arms race I'd find some
fair number of complaints about IPAs getting wildly overhopped and over
alcoholed, and sure enough, googling just this minute, they're out there
using exactly that phrase.
I'm sure the pendulum will never swing all the way back to the way
things were a few decades ago in England before the modern US IPA when
IPAs might be barely (or not at all) indistinguishable from a basic
bitter, with ABVs down in the 3s. But I think a variety of factors are
going to get the standard to shift back toward a 5.5 to 6.5 ABV, 60-70
IBU beer with classic American C hops. We'll see.

English IPAs were low gravity, low hop ales.

[baloonon]

Post by Tom Biasi

Post by baloonon
I'm sure the pendulum will never swing all the way back to the way
things were a few decades ago in England before the modern US IPA when
IPAs might be barely (or not at all) indistinguishable from a basic
bitter, with ABVs down in the 3s. But I think a variety of factors are
going to get the standard to shift back toward a 5.5 to 6.5 ABV, 60-

70

Post by Tom Biasi

Post by baloonon
IBU beer with classic American C hops. We'll see.

English IPAs were low gravity, low hop ales.

They could be low gravity, although in general were average, and were
generally higher-hopped. Well, taking a step back, it all depends on
what the perspective is. A 1960s IPA might be really low on all
accounts by today's standards but average by the standards back then.
In the 19th Century, they were average gravity high hopped Pale ales,
but taking those recipes and comparing them to the IPAs of 100 years
later, they were massive, unrecognizable beers. Comparing some of those
beers to the current day new-style American IPAs, they might even be
extreme.

Ron Pattinson's new Home Brewer's Guide to Vintage Beer has a recipe for
an 1868 Tetley IPA with a 6.6 ABV and IBU that registers at 146 -- 10 oz
of Goldings for 90 minute boil. He has another for an 1877 Truman that
measures out at 170 IBU.

Of course in today's England there are IPAs being made which mimic the
current US vision of high gravity high IBUs (compared to beers billed as
IPAs in the 1970s) and there are also beers being sold which match much
more closely to English IPAs of a few decades ago. IPA is a very
flexible style, like most of them are.

[Tom Biasi]

Post by baloonon

Post by Tom Biasi

Post by baloonon
I'm sure the pendulum will never swing all the way back to the way
things were a few decades ago in England before the modern US IPA

when

Post by Tom Biasi

Post by baloonon
IPAs might be barely (or not at all) indistinguishable from a basic
bitter, with ABVs down in the 3s. But I think a variety of factors

are

Post by Tom Biasi

Post by baloonon
going to get the standard to shift back toward a 5.5 to 6.5 ABV, 60-

70

Post by Tom Biasi

Post by baloonon
IBU beer with classic American C hops. We'll see.

English IPAs were low gravity, low hop ales.

They could be low gravity, although in general were average, and were
generally higher-hopped. Well, taking a step back, it all depends on
what the perspective is. A 1960s IPA might be really low on all
accounts by today's standards but average by the standards back then.
In the 19th Century, they were average gravity high hopped Pale ales,
but taking those recipes and comparing them to the IPAs of 100 years
later, they were massive, unrecognizable beers. Comparing some of those
beers to the current day new-style American IPAs, they might even be
extreme.
Ron Pattinson's new Home Brewer's Guide to Vintage Beer has a recipe for
an 1868 Tetley IPA with a 6.6 ABV and IBU that registers at 146 -- 10 oz
of Goldings for 90 minute boil. He has another for an 1877 Truman that
measures out at 170 IBU.
Of course in today's England there are IPAs being made which mimic the
current US vision of high gravity high IBUs (compared to beers billed as
IPAs in the 1970s) and there are also beers being sold which match much
more closely to English IPAs of a few decades ago. IPA is a very
flexible style, like most of them are.

I'm familiar with the history. If you want to talk about the kegs that
were first sent to India then they were quite highly hopped.
What you seem to be asking for is what I described. Low gravity, low
hoped ales. English Ales.

[baloonon]

Post by Tom Biasi

Post by baloonon

Post by Tom Biasi

Post by baloonon
I'm sure the pendulum will never swing all the way back to the way
things were a few decades ago in England before the modern US IPA
when IPAs might be barely (or not at all) indistinguishable from a
basic bitter, with ABVs down in the 3s. But I think a variety of
factors are going to get the standard to shift back toward a 5.5
to 6.5 ABV, 60-70 IBU beer with classic American C hops. We'll
see.

English IPAs were low gravity, low hop ales.

They could be low gravity, although in general were average, and were
generally higher-hopped. Well, taking a step back, it all depends on
what the perspective is. A 1960s IPA might be really low on all
accounts by today's standards but average by the standards back then.
In the 19th Century, they were average gravity high hopped Pale ales,
but taking those recipes and comparing them to the IPAs of 100 years
later, they were massive, unrecognizable beers. Comparing some of
those beers to the current day new-style American IPAs, they might
even be extreme.
Ron Pattinson's new Home Brewer's Guide to Vintage Beer has a recipe
for an 1868 Tetley IPA with a 6.6 ABV and IBU that registers at 146
-- 10 oz of Goldings for 90 minute boil. He has another for an 1877
Truman that measures out at 170 IBU.
Of course in today's England there are IPAs being made which mimic
the current US vision of high gravity high IBUs (compared to beers
billed as IPAs in the 1970s) and there are also beers being sold
which match much more closely to English IPAs of a few decades ago.
IPA is a very flexible style, like most of them are.

I'm familiar with the history. If you want to talk about the kegs that
were first sent to India then they were quite highly hopped.
What you seem to be asking for is what I described. Low gravity, low
hoped ales. English Ales.

I'm puzzled by what you're talking about. What I described

"Can anyone recommend a nice, elegant all grain IPA recipe
around 5.5 to 6.5 ABV, around 65 IBU, fairly simple hop
schedule? I prefer the more classic American C hops to
the newer more tropical fruit types such as Citra,
although a small contribution is OK. Something in the
neighborhood of Sierra Nevada Celebration, but a bit
lighter in the malt and hop bill.

really doesn't match English IPAs of the 1800s or 1900s, or really of the
2000s except for maybe a few boutique small brewer offerings. Sierra
Nevada Celebration clocks in at 6.8 ABV 68 IBU, so what I'm looking at is a
bit lower -- that really doesn't fit what you're describing. The
description of what I'm after does, however, fit the general parameters of
a ton of American IPAs out there in the marketplace today, hence the
request for input -- given the huge number of possible recipes, it's always
helpful to get some advice from the community on narrowing things down.

[Tom Biasi]

Post by baloonon

Post by Tom Biasi

Post by baloonon

Post by Tom Biasi

Post by baloonon
I'm sure the pendulum will never swing all the way back to the way
things were a few decades ago in England before the modern US IPA
when IPAs might be barely (or not at all) indistinguishable from a
basic bitter, with ABVs down in the 3s. But I think a variety of
factors are going to get the standard to shift back toward a 5.5
to 6.5 ABV, 60-70 IBU beer with classic American C hops. We'll
see.

English IPAs were low gravity, low hop ales.

They could be low gravity, although in general were average, and were
generally higher-hopped. Well, taking a step back, it all depends on
what the perspective is. A 1960s IPA might be really low on all
accounts by today's standards but average by the standards back then.
In the 19th Century, they were average gravity high hopped Pale ales,
but taking those recipes and comparing them to the IPAs of 100 years
later, they were massive, unrecognizable beers. Comparing some of
those beers to the current day new-style American IPAs, they might
even be extreme.
Ron Pattinson's new Home Brewer's Guide to Vintage Beer has a recipe
for an 1868 Tetley IPA with a 6.6 ABV and IBU that registers at 146
-- 10 oz of Goldings for 90 minute boil. He has another for an 1877
Truman that measures out at 170 IBU.
Of course in today's England there are IPAs being made which mimic
the current US vision of high gravity high IBUs (compared to beers
billed as IPAs in the 1970s) and there are also beers being sold
which match much more closely to English IPAs of a few decades ago.
IPA is a very flexible style, like most of them are.

I'm familiar with the history. If you want to talk about the kegs that
were first sent to India then they were quite highly hopped.
What you seem to be asking for is what I described. Low gravity, low
hoped ales. English Ales.

I'm puzzled by what you're talking about. What I described
"Can anyone recommend a nice, elegant all grain IPA recipe
around 5.5 to 6.5 ABV, around 65 IBU, fairly simple hop
schedule? I prefer the more classic American C hops to
the newer more tropical fruit types such as Citra,
although a small contribution is OK. Something in the
neighborhood of Sierra Nevada Celebration, but a bit
lighter in the malt and hop bill.
really doesn't match English IPAs of the 1800s or 1900s, or really of the
2000s except for maybe a few boutique small brewer offerings. Sierra
Nevada Celebration clocks in at 6.8 ABV 68 IBU, so what I'm looking at is a
bit lower -- that really doesn't fit what you're describing. The
description of what I'm after does, however, fit the general parameters of
a ton of American IPAs out there in the marketplace today, hence the
request for input -- given the huge number of possible recipes, it's always
helpful to get some advice from the community on narrowing things down.

I hope you find what you want.

[Ecnerwal]

Post by baloonon
I had a
feeling that if I googled the phrase IPA arms race I'd find some
fair number of complaints about IPAs getting wildly overhopped and over
alcoholed, and sure enough, googling just this minute, they're out there
using exactly that phrase.

I don't care for IPA's, so I can't help with the recipe search since I
don't make anything that resembles one. I have had pretty decent luck
with simply rolling my own recipes to suit what I like - the occasional
screw-up (Gambrinus honey malt - sounded better in the catalog than it
played in my brew) but for the most part my made up by me, low-gravity
low attenuation (I used to be able to get Laaglander DME, and bought 25
kg of it at a time) dark (pounds of chocolate malt for a 5 gallon batch)
low-hopped with moderate or noble hops brews turn out pretty darn fine.

In short, take what you want to do, sort out how to get in the ballpark
using what you know or stealing from recipes that may not say IPA, and
make it. Adjust as needed.

[baloonon]

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by baloonon
I had a
feeling that if I googled the phrase IPA arms race I'd find some
fair number of complaints about IPAs getting wildly overhopped and
over alcoholed, and sure enough, googling just this minute, they're
out there using exactly that phrase.

I don't care for IPA's, so I can't help with the recipe search since I
don't make anything that resembles one. I have had pretty decent luck
with simply rolling my own recipes to suit what I like - the
occasional screw-up (Gambrinus honey malt - sounded better in the
catalog than it played in my brew) but for the most part my made up by
me, low-gravity low attenuation (I used to be able to get Laaglander
DME, and bought 25 kg of it at a time) dark (pounds of chocolate malt
for a 5 gallon batch) low-hopped with moderate or noble hops brews
turn out pretty darn fine.
In short, take what you want to do, sort out how to get in the
ballpark using what you know or stealing from recipes that may not say
IPA, and make it. Adjust as needed.

That's generally my process, although the benefit of the 'nets is that
throwing out a request sometimes lets you take advantage of other
people's perspective -- they'll have good ideas you'd never think of on
your own.

By the way, speaking of low attenuation, not that it's what I want for
an IPA but for some other low gravity darks I sometimes make, are there
any recommendations for yeasts? I'm always sort of reluctant to go the
temp-dropping method since I bottle and that can result in bottle bombs
if things get too warm at some point, and I don't have a filtering set
up.

I've had some luck with Windsor, but am interested in other options for
yeast in lower-attenuated English-ish beers.

[Ecnerwal]

Post by baloonon
By the way, speaking of low attenuation, not that it's what I want for
an IPA but for some other low gravity darks I sometimes make, are there
any recommendations for yeasts? I'm always sort of reluctant to go the
temp-dropping method since I bottle and that can result in bottle bombs
if things get too warm at some point, and I don't have a filtering set
up.
I've had some luck with Windsor, but am interested in other options for
yeast in lower-attenuated English-ish beers.

If you are (as it sounds) doing all-grain, you have the power to adjust
fermentability _in the mash_ - the joy of Laaglander DME was having
someone else doing it for me and letting me continue to be a lazy
partial mash (full volume, but partial mash) brewer. Well, that, and
sniggering as people fretted about maximizing attenuation and "stuck"
fermentations. I rather like beer you can eat with fork (or nearly.) I
don't like exploding bottles and don't consider chilling a viable method
of stopping. Providing sugars the yeast can't eat is the way to get
there, IMHO.

You may need to read about how to maximize fermentability and work
backwards - this direction remains relatively unpopular in the
mainstream brewing community, but some information can be found that is
directed this way. Fundamentally, more roasted grains and higher mash-in
temperatures are your friends here.

I have speculated on but never carried out stopping (mostly in the
context of sweet sparkling mead, which is otherwise more or less
impossible) by allowing bottle carbonation and then Pasteurizing in
bottles, but I admit to not having carried my speculation far enough to
see if the pressures at Pasteurization temperatures would be excessive,
or at least require champagne bottles to hold.

Aside from Windsor, I've used S-04 (whitbread) (sure, 78% AA claimed -
but fed correctly, 40-55% AA can be had) S-33, Fosters (you may note a
pattern - I have never used a "liquid yeast" other than my own washed
yeast when recycling. I'm an old heathen, and I have yet to see the
point.)

[David M. Taylor]

Post by baloonon
By the way, speaking of low attenuation, not that it's what I want for
an IPA but for some other low gravity darks I sometimes make, are there
any recommendations for yeasts? I'm always sort of reluctant to go the
temp-dropping method since I bottle and that can result in bottle bombs
if things get too warm at some point, and I don't have a filtering set
up.
I've had some luck with Windsor, but am interested in other options for
yeast in lower-attenuated English-ish beers.

If really low attenuation is what you want, I have seen none worse than Wyeast 1099. I literally got 42% AA on my last batch. Decided I would never use that one again. Windsor is a great low attenuator if you want that. I get around 61% with the Windsor. But the 1099.... man, that's just wrong.

--
Dave

"This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption. Let us give praise to our Maker, and glory to His bounty, by learning about... BEER!" - Friar Tuck (Robin Hood - Prince of Thieves)

[Bart Goddard]

I'm travelling just now, so I don't have my recipes
handy, but my 10-gal, all-grain IPA is pretty simple
and lots of folks who don't like IPA's seem to like
mine. (From memory) It's 20 lbs of base malt, 1 lb
of 20L crystal. 3 ounces Chinook for 60 minutes and
1 ounce East Kent Goldings to finish. I think the main
difference is not finishing with citris-y hops. Usually,
I toast a lb of the base malt in the oven, which adds
a nice grainy flavor.

Post by baloonon
Given all of the posts bemoaning the lack of content, I thought

I'd

Post by baloonon
start something.
I'm always tinkering with (American) IPA recipes and haven't

found one

Post by baloonon
I truly love. I'm interested in something that's not super-high

IBU

Post by baloonon
or ABV. For example, I recently tried Boulevard's "The

Calling" and

Post by baloonon
Flying Dog's "Double Dog" and both were just too much -- too

bitter,

Post by baloonon
too heavy a body, too much alcohol. That's my read on a lot of

newer

Post by baloonon
IPAs and DIPAs.
Another beef I have with a lot of recipes out there is that

they're

Post by baloonon
way too complicated -- four different types of hops added in six
installments through the boil, and five different kinds of malt.
Can anyone recommend a nice, elegant all grain IPA recipe around

5.5

Post by baloonon
to 6.5 ABV, around 65 IBU, fairly simple hop schedule? I prefer

the

Post by baloonon
more classic American C hops to the newer more tropical fruit

types

Post by baloonon
such as Citra, although a small contribution is OK. Something

in the

Post by baloonon
neighborhood of Sierra Nevada Celebration, but a bit lighter in

the

Post by baloonon
malt and hop bill.

[baloonon]

Post by Bart Goddard
I'm travelling just now, so I don't have my recipes
handy, but my 10-gal, all-grain IPA is pretty simple
and lots of folks who don't like IPA's seem to like
mine. (From memory) It's 20 lbs of base malt, 1 lb
of 20L crystal. 3 ounces Chinook for 60 minutes and
1 ounce East Kent Goldings to finish. I think the main
difference is not finishing with citris-y hops. Usually,
I toast a lb of the base malt in the oven, which adds
a nice grainy flavor.

Thanks. The malt sounds really similar to my standard bill. It may be
that what I need to do is think past the straight American C hops for
flavor/aroma and toss an English/German into the mix, maybe go 2 parts
Centennial for 1 of Hallertau or Fuggles/Willamette. I'll think about that
as I try to decide a way forward.