Fermentation tgemperature low end?

Post by Joerg
Just brewed my 2nd Koelsch and tomorrow or Saturday a Crem Ale will
follow. To avoid stressing my not so great lower back I used the new
coil chiller and racked off the pot. Worked nicely. Then ... I saw that
the basement room is around 61F. The recipe kits for both recommend 65F
or higher while the yeast datasheet for Safale US-05 says 59-75F. So I
schlepped the Koelsch upstairs where the white plastic pot now sits
rather visible 6ft to the left of the wood stove where it's around 70F.
Needless to say, apart from back stress the missus does not think it's
very decorative.
Can a fermentation prematurely stall or some other not so nice effect
occur if left at around 60F?

You are in the yeast's range with 60F. I would not have moved it.
Fermentation will warm it some more.

Joerg

2016-11-24 22:37:57 UTC

You are in the yeast's range with 60F. I would not have moved it.
Fermentation will warm it some more.

Thanks. Then at least I'll leave the Cream Ale downstairs and bring the
Koelsch back down when it goes into secondary.

One reason for my question was that a Stout that I bottled on Nov-12
failed to carbonate downstairs. There was hardly any fizz after 8 days.
It looked like the remaining yeast had gone into hibernation. I moved it
upstairs and 2 days later it developed a nice head after pouring.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Tom Biasi

2016-11-25 01:34:55 UTC

You are in the yeast's range with 60F. I would not have moved it.
Fermentation will warm it some more.

Thanks. Then at least I'll leave the Cream Ale downstairs and bring the
Koelsch back down when it goes into secondary.
One reason for my question was that a Stout that I bottled on Nov-12
failed to carbonate downstairs. There was hardly any fizz after 8 days.
It looked like the remaining yeast had gone into hibernation. I moved it
upstairs and 2 days later it developed a nice head after pouring.

No question cooler temps make the yeast act slower. Maybe there wasn't a
lot of viable yeast left when you primed it.

Joerg

2016-11-25 15:00:03 UTC

You are in the yeast's range with 60F. I would not have moved it.
Fermentation will warm it some more.

Thanks. Then at least I'll leave the Cream Ale downstairs and bring the
Koelsch back down when it goes into secondary.
One reason for my question was that a Stout that I bottled on Nov-12
failed to carbonate downstairs. There was hardly any fizz after 8 days.
It looked like the remaining yeast had gone into hibernation. I moved it
upstairs and 2 days later it developed a nice head after pouring.

No question cooler temps make the yeast act slower. Maybe there wasn't a
lot of viable yeast left when you primed it.

However, after moving it to a warmer location near the wood stove it
carbonated nicely within two days. Had Stout yesterday after the turkey
dinner.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

baloonon

2016-11-25 21:22:55 UTC

Post by Joerg
Can a fermentation prematurely stall or some other not so nice effect
occur if left at around 60F?

You are in the yeast's range with 60F. I would not have moved it.
Fermentation will warm it some more.

I agree that it's not worth the hassle of moving. Wrapping the fermenter
in a couple of blankets or a sleeping bag can help contain the fermentation
heat in a situation like that. If necessary, you can also nestle it with
some bottles or jars filled with hot water. That's much easier than moving
40+ pounds of liquid.

Joerg

2016-11-25 21:42:12 UTC

Post by baloonon

Post by Joerg
Can a fermentation prematurely stall or some other not so nice effect
occur if left at around 60F?

You are in the yeast's range with 60F. I would not have moved it.
Fermentation will warm it some more.

I'll ask my wife for a blanket. Pretty soon she'll ask whether I also
want the kitchen sink :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

D Ash

2016-11-26 00:43:44 UTC

Post by Joerg
Can a fermentation prematurely stall or some other not so nice
effect occur if left at around 60F?

You are in the yeast's range with 60F. I would not have moved it.
Fermentation will warm it some more.

I agree that it's not worth the hassle of moving. Wrapping the
fermenter in a couple of blankets or a sleeping bag can help contain
the fermentation heat in a situation like that. If necessary, you
can also nestle it with some bottles or jars filled with hot water.
That's much easier than moving 40+ pounds of liquid.

I'll ask my wife for a blanket. Pretty soon she'll ask whether I also
want the kitchen sink :-)

Careful! She may also ask you if you want to sleep with your beer! There's
a very good reason we refer to HER as SWMBO! (and I'm so thankful this
holiday that SWMBO absolutely loves the aroma of hops in the boil!)

D Ash

2016-11-25 13:50:35 UTC

The yeast would likely have been fine beginning at 61F (ambient)
especially if you stopped chilling at ~70F. It would take longer for
the mass of liquid to cool the 8 or 9 degrees difference from ambient
than it would for the yeast (if around 200B cell count when pitched) to
begin chewing sugar molecules.

Put a 6-gallon Brit-style Strong Ale (OG: 1.078, adjusted for temp.) in
the pantry to do its thing last Saturday. The pantry stays at 64-66F (NE
corner of the house, shade tree outside east window) except for July-
Sept, so it's become my fermentation center. Pitched White Labs WPL007
English Dry Ale @ 2:00PM at 71F.
------------------
From my brewing log:

Brew Date: 11/19/16
Style: British Strong Ale
Name: BITChS Brew (acronym stands for Bull In The China Shop-- very
aptly named, as the day before brew date I shattered the carboy I was
cleaning preparing for brewday)

Sunday, 11/20
- 9:00AM: Ambient: 66F Fermenter: 66F Bubble: 1 / minute No acivity
visible in fermenter.
- 5:00PM: Ambient: 66F Fermenter: 66F Bubble: 2 / minute No visible
activity in fermenter
- 9:00PM: Ambient: 66F Fermenter: 66F Bubble: 3 / minute No visible
activity in fermenter

Monday, 11/21
- 9:00AM: Ambient: 64F Fermenter: 68F Bubble: 1 / 5 seconds Gentle
activity in fermenter
- 5:00PM: Ambient: 64F Fermenter: 68F Bubble: 1 / 5 seconds Gentle
activity in fermenter; Krausen beginning to form
-----------------

It went on like that until Wednesday when the Krausen began to drop.
That's when all hell broke loose in the beer! Roiling like mad, a bubble
every second, steady as a good heartbeat. Now, Friday morning at 5:00AM,
ambient holding steady at 64F, fermenter temp is still pushing 70F,
roiling very energetically and slowed down to 1 bubble / 3 seconds. It's
been 6 days-- How long will this monster go? It's like the Energizer
Bunny of brews!

Joerg

2016-11-25 14:57:26 UTC

that

Post by Joerg
the basement room is around 61F. The recipe kits for both recommend

65F

Post by Joerg
or higher while the yeast datasheet for Safale US-05 says 59-75F. So I
schlepped the Koelsch upstairs where the white plastic pot now sits
rather visible 6ft to the left of the wood stove where it's around

70F.

Post by Joerg
Needless to say, apart from back stress the missus does not think it's
very decorative.
Can a fermentation prematurely stall or some other not so nice effect
occur if left at around 60F?

The yeast would likely have been fine beginning at 61F (ambient)
especially if you stopped chilling at ~70F.

When I had cold water running out of the coil the wort was at slightly
below 80F and didn't drop any further. So I racked into the fermenter.

Post by D Ash
... It would take longer for
the mass of liquid to cool the 8 or 9 degrees difference from ambient
than it would for the yeast (if around 200B cell count when pitched) to
begin chewing sugar molecules.

True. As long as the yeast gets going in the time it drops. I mostly use
dry yeast which starts withing less than 24h (but not always). When I
use yeast cake it's faster, one started after about an our with air lock
bubbling.

Post by D Ash
Put a 6-gallon Brit-style Strong Ale (OG: 1.078, adjusted for temp.) in
the pantry to do its thing last Saturday.

Next year I'll brew something similar for myself. My wife doesn't like
beer above 6% ABV much.

Post by D Ash
... The pantry stays at 64-66F (NE
corner of the house, shade tree outside east window) except for July-
Sept, so it's become my fermentation center. Pitched White Labs WPL007
------------------
Brew Date: 11/19/16
Style: British Strong Ale
Name: BITChS Brew (acronym stands for Bull In The China Shop-- very
aptly named, as the day before brew date I shattered the carboy I was
cleaning preparing for brewday)

Oops. That is one of the reasons why I am still with plastic buckets.
Also the weight when having to schlepp a full one around. They won't
break but I can already see the effect of little scratches in there.
They came with them. Got to figure out a way to gently polish them out.
Maybe local heat could help.

Post by D Ash
Sunday, 11/20
- 9:00AM: Ambient: 66F Fermenter: 66F Bubble: 1 / minute No acivity
visible in fermenter.
- 5:00PM: Ambient: 66F Fermenter: 66F Bubble: 2 / minute No visible
activity in fermenter
- 9:00PM: Ambient: 66F Fermenter: 66F Bubble: 3 / minute No visible
activity in fermenter
Monday, 11/21
- 9:00AM: Ambient: 64F Fermenter: 68F Bubble: 1 / 5 seconds Gentle
activity in fermenter
- 5:00PM: Ambient: 64F Fermenter: 68F Bubble: 1 / 5 seconds Gentle
activity in fermenter; Krausen beginning to form
-----------------

Do you have a temperature sensor in the wort? If measured outside the
wort/beer was probably even warmer.

Post by D Ash
It went on like that until Wednesday when the Krausen began to drop.
That's when all hell broke loose in the beer! Roiling like mad, a bubble
every second, steady as a good heartbeat. Now, Friday morning at 5:00AM,
ambient holding steady at 64F, fermenter temp is still pushing 70F,
roiling very energetically and slowed down to 1 bubble / 3 seconds. It's
been 6 days-- How long will this monster go? It's like the Energizer
Bunny of brews!

So far I had only one beer that fermented this violently but only for
about three days. A friend had an Amber Ale that blew open the lid of
his fermenter bucket and those are quite hard to pry off.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

D Ash

2016-11-25 17:04:06 UTC

Post by D Ash
Monday, 11/21
- 9:00AM: Ambient: 64F Fermenter: 68F Bubble: 1 / 5 seconds Gentle
activity in fermenter
- 5:00PM: Ambient: 64F Fermenter: 68F Bubble: 1 / 5 seconds Gentle
activity in fermenter; Krausen beginning to form
-----------------

Do you have a temperature sensor in the wort? If measured outside the
wort/beer was probably even warmer.

No, not in the fermenter. I have a contact thermom that measures the glass
temp. Pretty good idea of the brew temp that way.

Post by D Ash
been 6 days-- How long will this monster go? It's like the Energizer
Bunny of brews!

So far I had only one beer that fermented this violently but only for
about three days. A friend had an Amber Ale that blew open the lid of
his fermenter bucket and those are quite hard to pry off.

Yeah, I, too, have had massive blow-off brews. This one didn't get
*violent*, just a very healthy roiling that goes on, and on, and on.
Excellent krausen blanket, very nearly made it to the blow-off tube 8"
above the beer level, but didn't quite make it. Still have an inch or so
and am wishing I could skim off the dark brown crusty crap, but can't.

Joerg

2016-11-25 21:34:50 UTC

Do you have a temperature sensor in the wort? If measured outside the
wort/beer was probably even warmer.

No, not in the fermenter. I have a contact thermom that measures the glass
temp. Pretty good idea of the brew temp that way.

That is a great idea! I have one of those for my job so I went and
checked the Koelsch fermenter which is now upstairs, next to the wood
stove. Sits at 72F and slowly bubbles in the air lock. The Cream Ale I
brewed this morning remained downstairs per Tom's advice and the outside
of that fermenter shows 80F (the room is 66F right now from all the
brewing). I use plastic bucket fermenters.

Post by D Ash
been 6 days-- How long will this monster go? It's like the Energizer
Bunny of brews!

So far I had only one beer that fermented this violently but only for
about three days. A friend had an Amber Ale that blew open the lid of
his fermenter bucket and those are quite hard to pry off.

The plastic fermenter buckets have a little over a gallon of extra head
space so it would take a lot of kraeusen to fill that up.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

D Ash

2016-11-26 01:07:03 UTC

Post by Joerg
The plastic fermenter buckets have a little over a gallon of extra
head space so it would take a lot of kraeusen to fill that up.

You are correct, but glass has the advantage of being Brewer's TV. When I
began back in '88, I was given 3 *old* glass carboys for free. I know that
plastic buckets are just fine for fermenting as well as for secondary
clarifying, but I just cannot give up being able to watch the action as it
unfolds. It is fascinating! But! I will not give up my Brewer's TV! (huge
grin)

The primary advantages to primary-ing in plastic is that the ugly brown
crust on top of the krausen can be skimmed off and discarded. The weight
difference you mentioned in an earlier post is-- at least in my estimation
--negligible (YMMV, of course). But, then, I don't have to schlep mine up
and down stairs until it's been bottled and has sat at room temp for a
couple weeks. Then I take, 2 at a time, cartons of 12 bottles to the
'cellar' to age. Basement temp avg: 62F nine months out of 12. If I did
have to pack the brewpot or full carboys -/- buckets up and down stairs, I
wouldn't be able to do this hobby at all. Lord help me, I'm barely able as
it is! But that's another story for another camp fire. Keep on brewing!

P.S.: I have the honor tomorrow of hosting two friends who want to learn
how to brew! It just so happens that tomorrow is a brew day! This should be
a lot of fun.

Joerg

2016-11-26 20:36:33 UTC