Specialty grains for an Oktoberfest?

[SWalters]

I've seen mixed thoughts on what specialy grains to use in a true Oktoberfest
beer. I plan on brewing one up soon (10 gallon AG) and wanted to get some
ideas.

I've seen:

Caramunich Malt
Melanoiden Malt
Carapils
Caramel 120
Caramel 60
Victory Malt
Biscuit
Aromatic
Biscuit

you name it...I've seen it in reliable sources. Question is, I'm really not
sure which malts I taste in examples such as Paulaner...etc.

I've read that Melandoiden w/ CaraMunich helps acheive that "decoction"
flavor as well as keeps the sugary sweetness down but the malt sweetness
where it should be. This is why I'm reluctant to put 120L or too much 60L in
the recipe.

I'm thinking the victory would be more for aroma than anything but not sure
how much you would add to a 10 gallon batch...

Any thoughts?

[The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty]

Post by SWalters
I've seen mixed thoughts on what specialy grains to use in a true Oktoberfest
beer. I plan on brewing one up soon (10 gallon AG) and wanted to get some
ideas.
Caramunich Malt
Melanoiden Malt
Carapils
Caramel 120
Caramel 60
Victory Malt
Biscuit
Aromatic
Biscuit
you name it...I've seen it in reliable sources. Question is, I'm really not
sure which malts I taste in examples such as Paulaner...etc.
I've read that Melandoiden w/ CaraMunich helps acheive that "decoction"
flavor as well as keeps the sugary sweetness down but the malt sweetness
where it should be. This is why I'm reluctant to put 120L or too much 60L in
the recipe.
I'm thinking the victory would be more for aroma than anything but not sure
how much you would add to a 10 gallon batch...
Any thoughts?

I've had good luck going the Fix route -- about 15%-20% of 3 differment
caramel malts (20, 40, 60 or 40, 60, 80), a pound or so of munich, with
maybe a little victory. Good pilsener malt as a base.

This basic recipe has won gold at the Cresent City comp a couple of
years back with a 43. I think that one was a decoct w/ no victory or
biscuit.

I'm not crazy about melanoidin with an all pilsener base, although I
like it in an all (or mostly) munich brew.

[Joel]

Post by The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty

Post by SWalters
I've seen mixed thoughts on what specialy grains to use in a true Oktoberfest
beer. I plan on brewing one up soon (10 gallon AG) and wanted to get some
ideas.
Caramunich Malt
Melanoiden Malt
Carapils
Caramel 120
Caramel 60
Victory Malt
Biscuit
Aromatic
Biscuit
you name it...I've seen it in reliable sources. Question is, I'm really not
sure which malts I taste in examples such as Paulaner...etc.

I've had good luck going the Fix route -- about 15%-20% of 3 differment
caramel malts (20, 40, 60 or 40, 60, 80), a pound or so of munich, with
maybe a little victory. Good pilsener malt as a base.

One thing to keep in mind is that when Fix wrote
his text the US homebrewer didn't have access to all
the great base malt we do now. I suspect if he were
around to revise the book today he'd have different
advice. Like use good quality German base malts
(e.g., Weyermann Vienna) and cut way down on the cara
malts. (But we'll never know.)
In any event I would personally avoid British and
Belgian type malts like biscuit, aromatic, and Victory,
and not use really dark crystal at all.

[...after some googling...]

It looks like Fix was preparing a new version of the
book. The following is him, from an online chat transcript:

We are doing a new version on Vienna/Maerzen. The
main goal is to re-hab the recipes to bring them
up to date given the fact there is so much good
Vienna and Munich malt available today. We are going
to make the formal definitions, which are of course
quite arbitrary that a Vienna should be a full amber
colored beer that has the high kilned malts augmented
with some crystal, a Marzen on the other hand is
lighter in color and is made exclusively from high
kilned malts, like Vienna and Munich. We see the
Octoberfest then as being the Festbier. The Vienna's
should be malty and rich. The Marzen's toasty and the
Octoberfest BIG.

(Unfortunately the transcript is undated.)

[SWalters]

Post by Joel
In any event I would personally avoid British and
Belgian type malts like biscuit, aromatic, and Victory,
and not use really dark crystal at all.

I've decided to do 10lbs Munich/ 3lbs Vienna/ 1.5lbs Carapils/ 1lb
CaraMunich III (Weyereman)

Thanks for the help.

Post by Joel
[...after some googling...]
It looks like Fix was preparing a new version of the
We are doing a new version on Vienna/Maerzen. The
main goal is to re-hab the recipes to bring them
up to date given the fact there is so much good
Vienna and Munich malt available today. We are going
to make the formal definitions, which are of course
quite arbitrary that a Vienna should be a full amber
colored beer that has the high kilned malts augmented
with some crystal, a Marzen on the other hand is
lighter in color and is made exclusively from high
kilned malts, like Vienna and Munich. We see the
Octoberfest then as being the Festbier. The Vienna's
should be malty and rich. The Marzen's toasty and the
Octoberfest BIG.
(Unfortunately the transcript is undated.)

This was a good find btw. I posted it on the BrewBoard as well.

[John Heubel]

Post by SWalters
I've seen mixed thoughts on what specialy grains to use in a true Oktoberfest
beer. I plan on brewing one up soon (10 gallon AG) and wanted to get some
ideas.
Caramunich Malt
Melanoiden Malt
Carapils
Caramel 120
Caramel 60
Victory Malt
Biscuit
Aromatic
Biscuit

Since you want a true Oktoberfestbier use German malts and keep the
grainbill fairly simple. I'd suggest the following in percentages of the
grist:

70% Pils
25% Munich
5% German dark crystal (80L)

or

50% Pils
30% Vienna
20% Munich

I decoct my beers with the decoct portion cooked at 15psi for 15 minutes or
so. I don't use many specialty malts anymore, but 10-20% aromatic or
biscuit malt may help substitute for the decoction effect. Denny????

Mash low enough to leave a dryish (well attenuated) beer with the T.G.
finishing between 1.012-1.014.

Hope this helps.

[SWalters]

Post by John Heubel
Since you want a true Oktoberfestbier use German malts and keep the
grainbill fairly simple. I'd suggest the following in percentages of
70% Pils
25% Munich
5% German dark crystal (80L)
or
50% Pils
30% Vienna
20% Munich
I decoct my beers with the decoct portion cooked at 15psi for 15 minutes
or so. I don't use many specialty malts anymore, but 10-20% aromatic or
biscuit malt may help substitute for the decoction effect. Denny????
Mash low enough to leave a dryish (well attenuated) beer with the T.G.
finishing between 1.012-1.014.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm going more the second option you've stated.
My last post gave the grain bill. Thanks again!