Caps not 100% tight after months

[Joerg]

When opening beers that have been in bottles for several months I
noticed that the carbonation has gone on many. Regular long-neck
bottles. To the extent that there is only 1/4" head or almost no head.
The beers still tastes good.

I am using a wing capper. Could that be the cause and would a bench
capper be better? I might get one anyhow because that allows the re-use
of more of the short-neck bottles.

[Joerg]

Post by Joerg
When opening beers that have been in bottles for several months I
noticed that the carbonation has gone on many. Regular long-neck
bottles. To the extent that there is only 1/4" head or almost no head.
The beers still tastes good.
I am using a wing capper. Could that be the cause and would a bench
capper be better? I might get one anyhow because that allows the re-use
of more of the short-neck bottles.

Oh, and which one? I read reviews where several people had a plastic
piece in the red Ferrari Super Agata capper break. I believe it can be
modded though.

[Ecnerwal]

Post by Joerg

Post by Joerg
When opening beers that have been in bottles for several months I
noticed that the carbonation has gone on many. Regular long-neck
bottles. To the extent that there is only 1/4" head or almost no head.
The beers still tastes good.
I am using a wing capper. Could that be the cause and would a bench
capper be better? I might get one anyhow because that allows the re-use
of more of the short-neck bottles.

Oh, and which one? I read reviews where several people had a plastic
piece in the red Ferrari Super Agata capper break. I believe it can be
modded though.

I don't know - I've never used a wing capper, and my red plastic capper
is a Colonna, not a ferrari, and nothing has broken (please don't give
it ideas.)

If I have any doubts about how it felt, I'll rotate the bottle slightly
and do it again. Can't recall any failures to seal. Have occasionally
had failures to fit, but those were the darn "next size up" bottles
which I could get a capping bell and caps for, but I won't because they
cost absurdly more than the standard size, last I looked. Mostly I can
spot those by eyeballing nowadays, but I was very peeved when I
discovered that I had carefully cleaned and sanitized an entire case of
the stupid things (and I suddenly had to sort out enough bottles for the
batch I was bottling!)

[Joerg]

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by Joerg

Post by Joerg
When opening beers that have been in bottles for several months I
noticed that the carbonation has gone on many. Regular long-neck
bottles. To the extent that there is only 1/4" head or almost no head.
The beers still tastes good.
I am using a wing capper. Could that be the cause and would a bench
capper be better? I might get one anyhow because that allows the re-use
of more of the short-neck bottles.

Oh, and which one? I read reviews where several people had a plastic
piece in the red Ferrari Super Agata capper break. I believe it can be
modded though.

I don't know - I've never used a wing capper, and my red plastic capper
is a Colonna, not a ferrari, and nothing has broken (please don't give
it ideas.)
If I have any doubts about how it felt, I'll rotate the bottle slightly
and do it again. Can't recall any failures to seal. Have occasionally
had failures to fit, but those were the darn "next size up" bottles
which I could get a capping bell and caps for, but I won't because they
cost absurdly more than the standard size, last I looked. Mostly I can
spot those by eyeballing nowadays, but I was very peeved when I
discovered that I had carefully cleaned and sanitized an entire case of
the stupid things (and I suddenly had to sort out enough bottles for the
batch I was bottling!)

That one is expensive and, to my surprise, all plastic:

http://www.northernbrewer.com/colonna-capper-corker

https://www.amazon.com/E-C-Kraus-COMINHKPR39700-Colonna-Capper/dp/B00838S6B6

The reviews are a bit mixed like for other bench cappers. So I am
thinking whether to mod a drill press stand. I have one but way to heavy
to schlepp around. In summer I bottle in the backyard and in winter in
the confined space of an unused tiled shower.

http://makezine.com/2011/09/13/tool-review-drill-press-bottle-capper/

I wish all bottles in the world were Grolsch. Unfortunately I only have
around 80 of them and we won't likely get more because all we now drink
is homebrew. Buying empties almost costs more than with the beer inside.

[Ecnerwal]

It's served me well for 21 years and counting, and I wasn't the first
owner. No loss of carbonation as things age, and believe me, things
around here age (I think there's still one bottle of '96 mead, and many
things from 05 and 11.)

The arm and plate both have steel pieces, as does the capping bell, but
the gearing is indeed all plastic.

[Joerg]

Post by Ecnerwal
It's served me well for 21 years and counting, and I wasn't the first
owner. No loss of carbonation as things age, and believe me, things
around here age (I think there's still one bottle of '96 mead, and many
things from 05 and 11.)
The arm and plate both have steel pieces, as does the capping bell, but
the gearing is indeed all plastic.

I just bought a Ferrari Super Agata bench capper, the more classic model
"Duemila" where you have to press a button to slide it towards other
bottle heights. Let's see. Today is brew day, a Koelsch is in the
fermenter already and and a Honey Stout is heating up towards boil. I
only have 2kW so that always takes a while. Tomorrow is bottling day, an
Autumn Amber, an Irish Red and a Belgian Tripel.

My impression is that the caps are softer than commercial ones. The ones
from Brewmeister in Folsom are better than others but still not
commercial grade AFAICT.

The oldest any beer gets in our house is four months, and only the beers
that my wife doesn't drink like anything above 6% ABV and anything dark.

[baloonon]

Post by Joerg
My impression is that the caps are softer than commercial ones. The ones
from Brewmeister in Folsom are better than others but still not
commercial grade AFAICT.

For what it's worth, my local store sells caps in bags of 144 from LD
Carlson and I've never had a problem with them. You may want try them out
if you still have issues with the new capper.

[Joerg]

Post by baloonon

Post by Joerg
My impression is that the caps are softer than commercial ones. The ones
from Brewmeister in Folsom are better than others but still not
commercial grade AFAICT.

For what it's worth, my local store sells caps in bags of 144 from LD
Carlson and I've never had a problem with them. You may want try them out
if you still have issues with the new capper.

Thanks. So far I only saw Carlson caps on EBay and because of high
shipping cost those get expensive. I'll see what the new capper does.

Now the Honey Stout is also in the fermenter. So I won't run out of that :-)

[baloonon]

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by Joerg

Post by Joerg
I am using a wing capper. Could that be the cause and would a bench
capper be better? I might get one anyhow because that allows the
re-use of more of the short-neck bottles.

I've only used a wing capper and haven't had problems. I have a batch
that's over a year old that I'm saving for Xmas and still carbed fine
last time I sampled.

Occasionally I'll screw up and the cap won't seat right and I'll have to
recap with a fresh cap, but that's operator error.

Having said that, I've read people complaining about them failing, and I
recognize it's not an extremely rugged piece of machinery.

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by Joerg
Oh, and which one? I read reviews where several people had a plastic
piece in the red Ferrari Super Agata capper break. I believe it can
be modded though.

I don't know - I've never used a wing capper, and my red plastic
capper is a Colonna, not a ferrari, and nothing has broken (please
don't give it ideas.)

I remember a scene in Breaking Bad where Hank was bottling a batch of
Schraderbrau and he was using a bench capper that broke a bottle and
caused him trauma. Fictional home brewing isn't a good example, of
course.

Post by Ecnerwal
If I have any doubts about how it felt, I'll rotate the bottle
slightly and do it again. Can't recall any failures to seal. Have
occasionally had failures to fit, but those were the darn "next size
up" bottles which I could get a capping bell and caps for, but I won't
because they cost absurdly more than the standard size, last I looked.
Mostly I can spot those by eyeballing nowadays, but I was very peeved
when I discovered that I had carefully cleaned and sanitized an entire
case of the stupid things (and I suddenly had to sort out enough
bottles for the batch I was bottling!)

It ought to be easy to test if the capper is messed up -- cap a half
dozen dry empty bottles and submerge them in water. If air bubbles rise
to the surface, or if water gets into the bottles after being left
overnight, it's time for a new capper. A good close look also ought to
tell if they're going on slightly askew, and a gentle twist of the cap
on a homemade bottle compared to a bottle of commercial stuff ought to
indicate if there's any unusual give on the seal.

[Joerg]

Post by baloonon

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by Joerg

Post by Joerg
I am using a wing capper. Could that be the cause and would a bench
capper be better? I might get one anyhow because that allows the
re-use of more of the short-neck bottles.

I've only used a wing capper and haven't had problems. I have a batch
that's over a year old that I'm saving for Xmas and still carbed fine
last time I sampled.
Occasionally I'll screw up and the cap won't seat right and I'll have to
recap with a fresh cap, but that's operator error.
Having said that, I've read people complaining about them failing, and I
recognize it's not an extremely rugged piece of machinery.

What I noticed early on in my 2nd home-brewing career stretch was that
caps can be different. For example, I found the golden ones from Midwest
to be a bit soft in the metal and they didn't hold nearly as well as
those from Brewmeister in Folsom. So now I buy all caps at Brewmeister.

Post by baloonon

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by Joerg
Oh, and which one? I read reviews where several people had a plastic
piece in the red Ferrari Super Agata capper break. I believe it can
be modded though.

I don't know - I've never used a wing capper, and my red plastic
capper is a Colonna, not a ferrari, and nothing has broken (please
don't give it ideas.)

I remember a scene in Breaking Bad where Hank was bottling a batch of
Schraderbrau and he was using a bench capper that broke a bottle and
caused him trauma. Fictional home brewing isn't a good example, of
course.

Post by Ecnerwal
If I have any doubts about how it felt, I'll rotate the bottle
slightly and do it again. Can't recall any failures to seal. Have
occasionally had failures to fit, but those were the darn "next size
up" bottles which I could get a capping bell and caps for, but I won't
because they cost absurdly more than the standard size, last I looked.
Mostly I can spot those by eyeballing nowadays, but I was very peeved
when I discovered that I had carefully cleaned and sanitized an entire
case of the stupid things (and I suddenly had to sort out enough
bottles for the batch I was bottling!)

It ought to be easy to test if the capper is messed up -- cap a half
dozen dry empty bottles and submerge them in water. If air bubbles rise
to the surface, or if water gets into the bottles after being left
overnight, it's time for a new capper. A good close look also ought to
tell if they're going on slightly askew, and a gentle twist of the cap
on a homemade bottle compared to a bottle of commercial stuff ought to
indicate if there's any unusual give on the seal.

You'd have to submerge full ones. I believe the caps only leak when CO2
substantial pressure is present inside. However, I know they leak
because the older the beer the weaker the carbonation. Only for the
regular bottles in the batch while the Grolsch bottles in the same batch
maintain nice and full carbonation.

Does anyone here have experience with the Ferrari Super Agata bench capper?