Home brewing starter kits?

[Joerg]

Hi there,

After not having brewed anything in over 30 years I want to test the
waters again. Or rather, the hops. Same for three neighbors, two of whom
also don't currently have brewing equipment. Would the Mr.Beer kits like
this one be suitable? I'd have to find the brewmaster's version though
because I like craft beer better.

http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Beer-Premium-Brewing-Craft/dp/B001BCFUBU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1455808923&sr=8-1&keywords=Mr.Beer

I am looking for something that doesn't require large upfront cash and
that I could keep using for small batches every once in a while. Looks
like these kits ease the chore of bottling which I remember was not
always as easy as it sounds.

Is there a discount place for hobby brewing supplies such as Pricepoint
or Nashbar are for bicyclists?

[Ecnerwal]

Post by Joerg
After not having brewed anything in over 30 years I want to test the
waters again. Or rather, the hops. Same for three neighbors, two of whom
also don't currently have brewing equipment.

John Palmer (who used to post useful stuff here 20-odd years ago) went a
wrote a book - "How to Brew" and he publishes an early edition online
for free, as well as updated editions or not much money. Highly
recommended. http://www.howtobrew.com

Post by Joerg
Would the Mr.Beer kits like this one be suitable?

Can't say I like the look of that much, but I have many biases, and have
heard newbies fighting with that piece of crap; the keg-thing is a bad
joke.

Post by Joerg
I am looking for something that doesn't require large upfront cash and
that I could keep using for small batches every once in a while. Looks
like these kits ease the chore of bottling which I remember was not
always as easy as it sounds.

If you want to go with oxygen-barrier plastic screwtop bottles, you can
just buy those; lacking the oxygen barrier (which appears to be lacking
in the linked kit), reuse soda bottles, keep out of the light, and don't
age it too long. While I've done the groslch thing like you used to, I
find that a stand-up Colonna capper and regular caps and glass bottles
work best for me - though I do acquire regular-size-crown cap 750mL
bottles when possible (a few brands of small-neck sparkling wine, and
Martinelli's cider.) Samuel Smith's 550's are nice, too. Champagne
bottles are nice but most use a larger size cap and the cap is
expensive, plus I'd have to get a different head for the capper to run
it.

Process-wise, if you just put it in a bottling bucket (I don't, which
complicates my system - but I have a pump for complicated) it's pretty
straightforward.

Post by Joerg
Is there a discount place for hobby brewing supplies such as Pricepoint
or Nashbar are for bicyclists?

Northern Brewer, Midwest Supplies; St Pats of Texas seems to have
turned to the wine side utterly. Duluth Homebrew Supply. Mind you, none
of these are close to me, but the good local store is long-gone. I poke
around when in the mood to order and compare shipped price from all
three and any others that seem possible. Awaiting a special is often a
good idea if patient.

Also, craigslist can be a very good resource, either as folks get out of
the hobby, or "upgrade" to kegs and ditch all their bottling supplies.
But I'd avoid a double-lever capper, personally. I got the bulk of my
kit from a friend who was moving and downsizing 20+ years ago.

As for the guy that wants to buy hops, it would be good to look around
for anyone who has hops, to see if they have varieties he'd want to
grow. They are pretty near to weeds, and generally need root pruning
every year, and all those root prunings are rhizomes from which new hops
can be grown. Thus, most hobby growers are happy to share, if asked at
the right time. Due to the commercial hops activity in your area (IIRC
where you are at) it may be difficult to ship in from outside the area.

[Joerg]

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by Joerg
After not having brewed anything in over 30 years I want to test the
waters again. Or rather, the hops. Same for three neighbors, two of whom
also don't currently have brewing equipment.

John Palmer (who used to post useful stuff here 20-odd years ago) went a
wrote a book - "How to Brew" and he publishes an early edition online
for free, as well as updated editions or not much money. Highly
recommended. http://www.howtobrew.com

Thanks, interesting read. Brewing is more complicated that I remember.

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by Joerg
Would the Mr.Beer kits like this one be suitable?

Can't say I like the look of that much, but I have many biases, and have
heard newbies fighting with that piece of crap; the keg-thing is a bad
joke.

Then I should spend more time piecing together all the parts. A 5-6
gallon food grade pail sounds good, maybe HW stores have that.

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by Joerg
I am looking for something that doesn't require large upfront cash and
that I could keep using for small batches every once in a while. Looks
like these kits ease the chore of bottling which I remember was not
always as easy as it sounds.

If you want to go with oxygen-barrier plastic screwtop bottles, you can
just buy those; lacking the oxygen barrier (which appears to be lacking
in the linked kit), reuse soda bottles, keep out of the light, and don't
age it too long. While I've done the groslch thing like you used to, I
find that a stand-up Colonna capper and regular caps and glass bottles
work best for me - though I do acquire regular-size-crown cap 750mL
bottles when possible (a few brands of small-neck sparkling wine, and
Martinelli's cider.) Samuel Smith's 550's are nice, too. Champagne
bottles are nice but most use a larger size cap and the cap is
expensive, plus I'd have to get a different head for the capper to run
it.

We do not drink soda pop but 16.9oz plastic water bottles should work if
the beer is stored in a dark cabinet (ours always is).

Post by Ecnerwal
Process-wise, if you just put it in a bottling bucket (I don't, which
complicates my system - but I have a pump for complicated) it's pretty
straightforward.

A pool pump or something similar would be easy to set up. IIRC we used
gravity feed in the olden days.

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by Joerg
Is there a discount place for hobby brewing supplies such as Pricepoint
or Nashbar are for bicyclists?

Northern Brewer, Midwest Supplies; St Pats of Texas seems to have
turned to the wine side utterly. Duluth Homebrew Supply. Mind you, none
of these are close to me, but the good local store is long-gone. I poke
around when in the mood to order and compare shipped price from all
three and any others that seem possible. Awaiting a special is often a
good idea if patient.

Aha ...

http://www.northernbrewer.com/


I'll also have to poke around in Folsom (CA). There used to be a brewing
store on Riley Street but it's gone.

Post by Ecnerwal
Also, craigslist can be a very good resource, either as folks get out of
the hobby, or "upgrade" to kegs and ditch all their bottling supplies.
But I'd avoid a double-lever capper, personally. I got the bulk of my
kit from a friend who was moving and downsizing 20+ years ago.

I could bite myself. Grandpa had several massive glass carboys and as a
kid I had no clue what those were for so we left them there when
cleaning out the house.

Post by Ecnerwal
As for the guy that wants to buy hops, it would be good to look around
for anyone who has hops, to see if they have varieties he'd want to
grow. They are pretty near to weeds, and generally need root pruning
every year, and all those root prunings are rhizomes from which new hops
can be grown. Thus, most hobby growers are happy to share, if asked at
the right time....

Good idea, I'll tell him.

Post by Ecnerwal
... Due to the commercial hops activity in your area (IIRC
where you are at) it may be difficult to ship in from outside the area.

Oh, oh, turf protection games?

I'd even prefer buying local if a grower sells to home brewers.

[Ecnerwal]

Post by Joerg
Thanks, interesting read. Brewing is more complicated that I remember.

Depends what you want. Assuming you want decent beer, sure it is a
little complicated. The old-line terrible method as still practiced by
some folks who are mostly into cheapness is something like dump a can of
hopped extract into a 4-5 gallon pot with 2.5 gallons of water and 4
pounds of cane sugar, boil, dump in a bucket with a couple gallons of
cold water, add a packet of dry yeast once it's not too hot, slap in an
airlock and bottle it in a week, then get it drunk up in a couple weeks.

Not my method.

Specifically, I use a 10 gallon pot for a 5 gallon batch [a full boil"
as opposed to a "partial boil"], I never use hopped extract (I use
hops), I almost always use "specialty grains" (lots of chocolate malt,
sometimes other stuff) and the only thing I'll ever use cane sugar for
is priming, and not often. I do make meads and braggots with honey, but
for beer, I use barley malt only. My easy-method preference is dry malt
extract - it stores forever if kept dry and it's easier to handle than
syrup.

I now do some "partial mash" work with some normal malt mixed in with
the chocolate as the water is heating in the kettle, and stopping the
heating for a while at various points, then draining the mesh bag (5
gallon paint strainer bags) over the kettle. I continue to resist "all
grain" in all it's time-suck glory and computer-geek temptations to
"build a RIMS" Recirculating Infusion Mash System - pumped wort,
immersion heaters, precise temperature profiles, all sorts of cash-suck
and time suck.

My fermentation regime is a week in primary whether or not it needs it
and two weeks in secondary whether or not it needs it. Any sign of
continued activity in secondary and it can stay there for another month
or three; I don't like bottle bombs. If there's much sign of activity in
primary after a week it can spend two weeks in there before it gets
moved.

Whenever I get off my butt and bottle it, it then spends 2 weeks at a
minimum priming and usually more like a month, then it stores for as
long as it does until I get around to drinking it. I use glass bottles,
I've never paid extra for "oxygen absorbing caps" and years is not a
problem. I use a method similar in principle to the "primetabs" product
- I mix my priming sugar in a small amount of water, boil and cool,
calculate the volume per bottle, put it in the sanitized bottle and fill
directly, without the "mixing priming sugar into the beer in a bottling
bucket" step - that is largely from "fear of oxidation at that
particular step." If you use a fermenter with a tap on the bottom
(what's normally thought of as a bottling bucket) it's easy to do the
same with no pumping. I use glass for everything and I'm not drilling
holes in my carboys. I love siphoning stuff in general, but fermented
beer is frustrating as the dissolved CO2 tends to bubble out in the top
of the siphon, eventually breaking it, and then you have a gallon of
beer left that is a royal pain to get into bottles without a pump.
Casual sanitation folks will just suck on it - I'm not a casual
sanitation folk. Not having to pick up full glass carboys is another
advantage to pumping, but that's far less of an issue with plastic
buckets.

I do, as a rule, use dry yeast, mostly Danstar, and I have yet to find
much appeal in the liquid yeast, other than when I "wash" my own yeast
for reuse. It's another rabbit hole you can go down - or not.

Post by Joerg
Then I should spend more time piecing together all the parts. A 5-6
gallon food grade pail sounds good, maybe HW stores have that.

Free ones are commonly from bakeries/grocery-store bakeries/donut
shops/restaurants - ask. Will cost a bit of baking soda and time to get
the frosting (or whatever) smell out. Pickle buckets are probably a bad
idea. A starter kit from a homebrew supply will have a couple, normally
and might work out to a deal, overall - they want to get you hooked.

Post by Joerg
A pool pump or something similar would be easy to set up. IIRC we used
gravity feed in the olden days.

I'd question the ability to sanitize and food-grade-ness of a pool pump.
Just siphon into a bottling bucket with gravity and use the spigot on
the bottling bucket to bottle. Or put spigots in all your buckets and
don't siphon anything, as you prefer. When I pump, I peristaltic, so the
pump never touches the beer - just the sanitized food-grade tubing does.

Post by Joerg
I could bite myself. Grandpa had several massive glass carboys and as a
kid I had no clue what those were for so we left them there when
cleaning out the house.

Oops happens.

Post by Joerg
Oh, oh, turf protection games?

Legitimate fear of introducing disease by shipping plants - but you
might be further south than I mis-remembered.

[Ecnerwal]

In article

[a full boil" as opposed to a "partial boil"]

Two additional comments WRT this - One - find the used restaurant supply
store near you, pick up a 40 quart pot, it will be far cheaper than from
a brew supply.

Two - you mentioned wanting to brew IPAs - hops utilization is greatly
improved by a full as opposed to partial boil. Which means you get more
hoppiness for the same hops, or use less hops to get the same hoppiness.

Three (I feel like a certain monty python sketch) let me put in a plug
for "first wort hopping" which is effectively adding hops before the
boil, boils. I think it works. Mind you, I'm using mostly fancy-pants
low AA good aroma hops, not the "make it bitter and don't be subtle"
types. Tettnanger, Saaz, Hallertauer, Fuggles.

[T.J. Higgins]

Post by Ecnerwal
In article

[a full boil" as opposed to a "partial boil"]

Two additional comments WRT this - One - find the used restaurant supply
store near you, pick up a 40 quart pot, it will be far cheaper than from
a brew supply.

You can also get a food-grade bucket at restaurant supply stores.
Then get the necessary valve at a homebrew shop & you'll be good to go.

[Joerg]

Post by T.J. Higgins

Post by Ecnerwal
In article

[a full boil" as opposed to a "partial boil"]

Two additional comments WRT this - One - find the used restaurant supply
store near you, pick up a 40 quart pot, it will be far cheaper than from
a brew supply.

You can also get a food-grade bucket at restaurant supply stores.
Then get the necessary valve at a homebrew shop & you'll be good to go.

Not sure if that would be a benefit but contractors often have round
cooler buckets mounted off the side of their truck which already have a
spigot built in. They would keep the temperature fairly constant. They
use them to supply their workers with cold drinking water.

[Joerg]

Post by Ecnerwal
In article

[a full boil" as opposed to a "partial boil"]

Two additional comments WRT this - One - find the used restaurant supply
store near you, pick up a 40 quart pot, it will be far cheaper than from
a brew supply.
Two - you mentioned wanting to brew IPAs - hops utilization is greatly
improved by a full as opposed to partial boil. Which means you get more
hoppiness for the same hops, or use less hops to get the same hoppiness.
Three (I feel like a certain monty python sketch) let me put in a plug
for "first wort hopping" which is effectively adding hops before the
boil, boils. I think it works. Mind you, I'm using mostly fancy-pants
low AA good aroma hops, not the "make it bitter and don't be subtle"
types. Tettnanger, Saaz, Hallertauer, Fuggles.

Wow, you must be a brewmaster by now. Back when we brewed it was more
like what you called "old-line terrible method as still practiced by
some folks" although we did not use any pre-mixed stuff.

Initially I want to brew small batches, maybe 2 gallons. If it works,
tastes good and lasts long in the bottle I'd increase but not likely
beyond 5 gallons. Regarding hops, grains and other stuff I hope
Brewmeister in Folsom is still around.

http://www.shopbrewmeister.com/index.php/brewing.html

They would almost be on one of my bicycle routes and schlepping some
bags up a few hills would compensate for the calories from the beer.

We tried bottle fermentation only once back in the 80's, never again.
Long story but suffice it to say that nightly explosions with glass
flying were no fun in a studio-style bedroom.

Could call on the water bottles, then it'll have to either be glass or
some purchased bottles as we don't drink soda.

I guess this must have come from the maker scene :-)

http://www.shopbrewmeister.com/index.php/brewing/pico-brew-zymatic.html

This may be a good way to stay, something we didn't have in the 80's:

http://www.shopbrewmeister.com/index.php/brewing/recipes-kits.html

I probably should attend one of their brewing classes.

[Ecnerwal]

Post by Joerg
Wow, you must be a brewmaster by now.

Nope, just an engineer that brews; I brew like an engineer, of course.

Post by Joerg
Initially I want to brew small batches, maybe 2 gallons. If it works,
tastes good and lasts long in the bottle I'd increase but not likely
beyond 5 gallons. Regarding hops, grains and other stuff I hope
Brewmeister in Folsom is still around.

With the possible exception of not having a big enough pot, a 1, 2, or 3
gallon batch is 95% of the work of a 5 gallon batch.

I don't go larger than 5 myself (I do have a 6.5 gallon primary, but
that's just for headspace.) Handling becomes an issue, and I boil on a
"canning element" on my electric stove (I do at least have an exhaust
hood that really exhausts, not one of those useless recirculating fans.)
I typically start with about 7 gallons for a 90 minute boil - I also
have a "calibrated spoon" that tells me how much I have in there as it
boils down.

I got all excited about 1 gallon stuff (experimental brews, whoo-hoo)
once upon a time and collected a bunch of 1-gallon glass jugs as
fermenters for that, and #8 (I think) stoppers for the airlocks. Problem
being, it's 95% of the work, and it's (less than) a gallon of beer,
cider, mead or whatever. I tend to plan my experiments such that I don't
typically find them "dump down the drain" worthy, so this turned out to
be a poor return on effort. But, certainly no problem to start there,
particularly if you don't have a big pot. If you have a typical home big
pot (20-24 quarts) shooting for 3 gallons would be more return on not
much new equipment, IMHO.

Grolsh (et al - some belgian, limonade, etc.) gaskets are still easy to
get, and can also be sanitized and reused several times over. I think
the gasket on the 20 year old bottle of mead in the closet is probably
due for retirement when I open that bottle, though. My moving on from
them was somewhat influenced by having a Colonna.

Post by Joerg
We tried bottle fermentation only once back in the 80's, never again.
Long story but suffice it to say that nightly explosions with glass
flying were no fun in a studio-style bedroom.

Well, unless you are going to go whole hog for a keg system, it's the
only practical way to get fizz in your beer. You simply have to approach
it correctly - be pretty sure the beer is done fermenting, and then add
only a controlled, small amount of fresh sugar for carbonation. An
excess of caution also stores them in plastic tubs for a while, just in
case. That's also a place where Champagne bottles are a big help if you
bother to deal with their odd capping (or corking) needs, as they are
MUCH stronger than typical beer bottles. But I have not blown up a
bottle yet, simply through due care in process. In the other direction,
plastic bottles let you feel how hard they are to gauge carbonation
progress, and then you can refrigerate them once they are adequately
firm.

[Joerg]

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by Joerg
Wow, you must be a brewmaster by now.

Nope, just an engineer that brews; I brew like an engineer, of course.

Post by Joerg
Initially I want to brew small batches, maybe 2 gallons. If it works,
tastes good and lasts long in the bottle I'd increase but not likely
beyond 5 gallons. Regarding hops, grains and other stuff I hope
Brewmeister in Folsom is still around.

With the possible exception of not having a big enough pot, a 1, 2, or 3
gallon batch is 95% of the work of a 5 gallon batch.
I don't go larger than 5 myself (I do have a 6.5 gallon primary, but
that's just for headspace.) Handling becomes an issue, and I boil on a
"canning element" on my electric stove (I do at least have an exhaust
hood that really exhausts, not one of those useless recirculating fans.)
I typically start with about 7 gallons for a 90 minute boil - I also
have a "calibrated spoon" that tells me how much I have in there as it
boils down.
I got all excited about 1 gallon stuff (experimental brews, whoo-hoo)
once upon a time and collected a bunch of 1-gallon glass jugs as
fermenters for that, and #8 (I think) stoppers for the airlocks. Problem
being, it's 95% of the work, and it's (less than) a gallon of beer,
cider, mead or whatever. I tend to plan my experiments such that I don't
typically find them "dump down the drain" worthy, so this turned out to
be a poor return on effort. But, certainly no problem to start there,
particularly if you don't have a big pot. If you have a typical home big
pot (20-24 quarts) shooting for 3 gallons would be more return on not
much new equipment, IMHO.

That's how I see it as well. We might only have a 2 gallon pot. For a
first test run that's ok. If it comes out tasty it's easy to justfy
buying a larger pot. I could probably even do that part in the kitchen
because we have a powerful Broan exhaust, almost restaurant grade.

Post by Ecnerwal
Grolsh (et al - some belgian, limonade, etc.) gaskets are still easy to
get, and can also be sanitized and reused several times over. I think
the gasket on the 20 year old bottle of mead in the closet is probably
due for retirement when I open that bottle, though. My moving on from
them was somewhat influenced by having a Colonna.

For me it's also price. Grolsch is painfully pricey in the US. While
living in the Netherlands it was my house beer. We also have two glass
growlers that aren't used much anymore so I could fill those as well.
Need to cut some neoprene gaskets for them anyhow because the screw caps
start to leak.

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by Joerg
We tried bottle fermentation only once back in the 80's, never again.
Long story but suffice it to say that nightly explosions with glass
flying were no fun in a studio-style bedroom.

Well, unless you are going to go whole hog for a keg system, it's the
only practical way to get fizz in your beer. You simply have to approach
it correctly - be pretty sure the beer is done fermenting, ...

I think that's where we messed up back then.

Post by Ecnerwal
... and then add
only a controlled, small amount of fresh sugar for carbonation. An
excess of caution also stores them in plastic tubs for a while, just in
case. That's also a place where Champagne bottles are a big help if you
bother to deal with their odd capping (or corking) needs, as they are
MUCH stronger than typical beer bottles. But I have not blown up a
bottle yet, simply through due care in process. In the other direction,
plastic bottles let you feel how hard they are to gauge carbonation
progress, and then you can refrigerate them once they are adequately
firm.

That what I like about the Mr.Beer kits, they come with a fair amount of
large plastic bottles, 700ml or so I think. But it the rest of the kit
is not fun then I'll find some elsewhere. Glass bottles have the
advantage that it's easier to give them to friends for tasting.

[Ecnerwal]

Post by Joerg
We do not drink soda pop but 16.9oz plastic water bottles should work if
the beer is stored in a dark cabinet (ours always is).

Missed this one in my omnibus reply. If it's carbonated water, yes. If
it's still water, you may experience some insight on plastic bottle
design for pressure - or lack therof.

[Doc Hennessey]

I just throughout a Mr. Beer last week, got it as a gift years ago and
never uese it. I do not think you would be happy with the Mr. Beer
for long and you would have invested $50 you could have put to a
better system. If there are three of you that want to brew by
dividing the cost between you, you could get a very good starter kit
for under seventy dollars each. In the long run that would seem to me
to be the cheapest way to get into brewing.

You could also look at small batch brewing. Take a look at this site:
http://brooklynbrewshop.com/ these kits can be bought at retail
stores, near me it is Bed Bath and Beyond.

Unlike thirty years ago you can make almost any beer you want. You
can buy ingredient kits that will have all of the ingredients for the
beer. They have come a long way since you and I started brewing. Once
you get the durable equipment bought a kit will cost between $20 and
$50 for a five gallon kit depending on where you buy the kit.

Check More Beer and get a catalog. Most places will have a catalog
and we could name ten places with out trying too hard. But you need a
place to start. It will give you some ideas and you can put i8t under
your pillow when you sleep.

I did see you mention water bottles to put the beer in: water bottles
are not ment to store liquids under pressure. I do not think these
are a good idea went you can collect, clean, sanatize and fill 12
ounce beer bottles.

Just my thoughts,

Doc

[Joerg]

Post by Doc Hennessey
I just throughout a Mr. Beer last week, got it as a gift years ago and
never uese it. I do not think you would be happy with the Mr. Beer
for long and you would have invested $50 you could have put to a
better system. If there are three of you that want to brew by
dividing the cost between you, you could get a very good starter kit
for under seventy dollars each. In the long run that would seem to me
to be the cheapest way to get into brewing.
http://brooklynbrewshop.com/ these kits can be bought at retail
stores, near me it is Bed Bath and Beyond.
Unlike thirty years ago you can make almost any beer you want. You
can buy ingredient kits that will have all of the ingredients for the
beer. They have come a long way since you and I started brewing. Once
you get the durable equipment bought a kit will cost between $20 and
$50 for a five gallon kit depending on where you buy the kit.

http://brooklynbrewshop.com/beer-making-kits/punk-ipa-beer-making-kit

1 gallon is kind of small though. Their 5 gallon kit is $170. Not a
problem but I want to first test the waters. If brewing works and is fun
we'd invest in some real gear and maybe build a pump setup like Lawrence
did. I'll also talk to a guy who I meet on dog walks almost daily. He
makes wine and may already have some equipment that can be used for
brewing. Or as you said we'll split the cost.

Post by Doc Hennessey
Check More Beer and get a catalog. Most places will have a catalog
and we could name ten places with out trying too hard. But you need a
place to start. It will give you some ideas and you can put i8t under
your pillow when you sleep.

I am going to look whether Brewmeister in Folsom (CA) is still around
and visit them.

Post by Doc Hennessey
I did see you mention water bottles to put the beer in: water bottles
are not ment to store liquids under pressure. I do not think these
are a good idea went you can collect, clean, sanatize and fill 12
ounce beer bottles.

True. That requires caps and a capper but it isn't a large investment.
What I found though was that the labels on most American bottles won't
come off and with labels halfway chafed off during sterilization it all
would have a grungy look. In Europe where I did my (so far only) brewing
many decades ago all we had to do is soak the bottles in warm water and
the labels floated right off. Since we didn't have a capper we used flip
top bottles from Belgium but mostly Grolsch bottles from the
Netherlands. We had found a source where we could buy fresh rubber seals
for them.

[Bob F]

Post by Joerg

Post by Doc Hennessey
I just throughout a Mr. Beer last week, got it as a gift years ago
and never uese it. I do not think you would be happy with the Mr.
Beer for long and you would have invested $50 you could have put to a
better system. If there are three of you that want to brew by
dividing the cost between you, you could get a very good starter kit
for under seventy dollars each. In the long run that would seem to
me to be the cheapest way to get into brewing.
You could also look at small batch brewing. Take a look at this
site: http://brooklynbrewshop.com/ these kits can be bought at retail
stores, near me it is Bed Bath and Beyond.
Unlike thirty years ago you can make almost any beer you want. You
can buy ingredient kits that will have all of the ingredients for the
beer. They have come a long way since you and I started brewing.
Once you get the durable equipment bought a kit will cost between
$20 and $50 for a five gallon kit depending on where you buy the kit.

http://brooklynbrewshop.com/beer-making-kits/punk-ipa-beer-making-kit
1 gallon is kind of small though. Their 5 gallon kit is $170. Not a
problem but I want to first test the waters. If brewing works and is
fun we'd invest in some real gear and maybe build a pump setup like
Lawrence did. I'll also talk to a guy who I meet on dog walks almost
daily. He makes wine and may already have some equipment that can be
used for brewing. Or as you said we'll split the cost.

Post by Doc Hennessey
Check More Beer and get a catalog. Most places will have a catalog
and we could name ten places with out trying too hard. But you need
a place to start. It will give you some ideas and you can put i8t
under your pillow when you sleep.

I am going to look whether Brewmeister in Folsom (CA) is still around
and visit them.

Post by Doc Hennessey
I did see you mention water bottles to put the beer in: water bottles
are not ment to store liquids under pressure. I do not think these
are a good idea went you can collect, clean, sanatize and fill 12
ounce beer bottles.

True. That requires caps and a capper but it isn't a large investment.
What I found though was that the labels on most American bottles won't
come off and with labels halfway chafed off during sterilization it
all would have a grungy look. In Europe where I did my (so far only)
brewing many decades ago all we had to do is soak the bottles in warm
water and the labels floated right off. Since we didn't have a capper
we used flip top bottles from Belgium but mostly Grolsch bottles from
the Netherlands. We had found a source where we could buy fresh

My experience was that most better beer bottles had labels that would come off
easily after soaking.

Post by Joerg
rubber seals for them.

[Bob F]

Post by Joerg
Hi there,
After not having brewed anything in over 30 years I want to test the
waters again. Or rather, the hops. Same for three neighbors, two of
whom also don't currently have brewing equipment. Would the Mr.Beer
kits like this one be suitable? I'd have to find the brewmaster's
version though because I like craft beer better.
http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Beer-Premium-Brewing-Craft/dp/B001BCFUBU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1455808923&sr=8-1&keywords=Mr.Beer
I am looking for something that doesn't require large upfront cash and
that I could keep using for small batches every once in a while. Looks
like these kits ease the chore of bottling which I remember was not
always as easy as it sounds.
Is there a discount place for hobby brewing supplies such as
Pricepoint or Nashbar are for bicyclists?

People give gear away all the time on Craigslist "free" or freecycle. Keep an
out and you might get stuff free or very cheap. I've gotten much gear this way,
including fermenters, cappers, corny kegs, and practically everything else.

[Bob F]

Post by Bob F

Post by Joerg
Hi there,
After not having brewed anything in over 30 years I want to test the
waters again. Or rather, the hops. Same for three neighbors, two of
whom also don't currently have brewing equipment. Would the Mr.Beer
kits like this one be suitable? I'd have to find the brewmaster's
version though because I like craft beer better.
http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Beer-Premium-Brewing-Craft/dp/B001BCFUBU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1455808923&sr=8-1&keywords=Mr.Beer
I am looking for something that doesn't require large upfront cash
and that I could keep using for small batches every once in a while.
Looks like these kits ease the chore of bottling which I remember
was not always as easy as it sounds.
Is there a discount place for hobby brewing supplies such as
Pricepoint or Nashbar are for bicyclists?

People give gear away all the time on Craigslist "free" or freecycle.
Keep an out and you might get stuff free or very cheap. I've gotten
much gear this way, including fermenters, cappers, corny kegs, and
practically everything else.

I should add - check for local homebrew clubs. They'd be an excellent place to
meet other brewers, taste their brews, and participate in homebrewing with
others, and perhaps even use their equipment and help on a brew.

[Bob F]

Post by Joerg
Hi there,
After not having brewed anything in over 30 years I want to test the
waters again. Or rather, the hops. Same for three neighbors, two of
whom also don't currently have brewing equipment. Would the Mr.Beer
kits like this one be suitable? I'd have to find the brewmaster's
version though because I like craft beer better.
http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Beer-Premium-Brewing-Craft/dp/B001BCFUBU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1455808923&sr=8-1&keywords=Mr.Beer
I am looking for something that doesn't require large upfront cash and
that I could keep using for small batches every once in a while. Looks
like these kits ease the chore of bottling which I remember was not
always as easy as it sounds.
Is there a discount place for hobby brewing supplies such as
Pricepoint or Nashbar are for bicyclists?

I believe I saw that you are in California. Check locally for brew stores. There
should be plenty these days since lots of people are homebrewing. I bought some
excellent ingrediant kits from morebeer.com when I was brewing beer.

[Joerg]

Post by Bob F

Post by Joerg
Hi there,
After not having brewed anything in over 30 years I want to test the
waters again. Or rather, the hops. Same for three neighbors, two of
whom also don't currently have brewing equipment. Would the Mr.Beer
kits like this one be suitable? I'd have to find the brewmaster's
version though because I like craft beer better.
http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Beer-Premium-Brewing-Craft/dp/B001BCFUBU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1455808923&sr=8-1&keywords=Mr.Beer
I am looking for something that doesn't require large upfront cash and
that I could keep using for small batches every once in a while. Looks
like these kits ease the chore of bottling which I remember was not
always as easy as it sounds.
Is there a discount place for hobby brewing supplies such as
Pricepoint or Nashbar are for bicyclists?

I believe I saw that you are in California. Check locally for brew stores. There
should be plenty these days since lots of people are homebrewing. I bought some
excellent ingrediant kits from morebeer.com when I was brewing beer.

Well, it still does exist, they just moved:

http://www.shopbrewmeister.com/

I'll pay them a visit shortly. Thanks for the tip about Craigslist and
homebrew clubs, good idea. Meantime I also found a neighbor who has two
fermenters and he said I can borrow one if needed. They look like the
usual 6-1/2 gallon deal.

[baloonon]

Post by Joerg
Hi there,
After not having brewed anything in over 30 years I want to test the
waters again. Or rather, the hops. Same for three neighbors, two of
whom also don't currently have brewing equipment. Would the Mr.Beer
kits like this one be suitable? I'd have to find the brewmaster's
version though because I like craft beer better.
http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Beer-Premium-Brewing-

Craft/dp/B001BCFUBU/ref=s

Post by Joerg
r_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1455808923&sr=8-1&keywords=Mr.Beer

Lots of good responses here, so this is just my take --

The Mr. Beer fermenter is fine for small batches, except the spigot is
kind of slow. I'm pretty sure there are people who have redrilled it
to take a regular spigot.

Look into "brew in a bag" for all grain brewing. It's really simple and
you can brew almost any all grain recipe with a minimal investment in
equipment. It's especially well suited to smaller batches (although you
can scale up to 5 gallons easily) because it's easier to maneuver.

One downside to brew in a bag is that you have to deal with a heavy wet
bag of grain after the mash, although people get around that by using
two bags or mashing in two containers. Probably the only trick is
getting a good fine grind to your grain. It's barely more hassle than
doing extract plus steeping.

I use glass bottles now but for quite a few batches I used plastic soda
and seltzer bottles with their original caps instead of glass bottles
with new caps. They hold carbonation for six months or more as long as
they haven't been reused too many times. They are harder to clean than
glass so you want to recycle after a few batches and you obviously don't
need to buy a bottle capper. You generally need to be careful about
storing them in the dark or in boxes so you don't skunk the beer. Like
other people said, don't use regular water bottles.

You can ferment in a bottling bucket as long as the spigot is high
enough to clear the trub, which means you really only need one bucket.
The downside is you may lose a few bottles due to some sludge transfer.

There are a lot of people who use the "no chill" method which is also a
good way to simplify things. I don't, but it's supposed be very
straightforward. You need to fiddle with recipes to account for longer
exposure of hops, and you have to wait to start the fermentation, but
it's a way to skip cooling wort, which can be a pain.

Unless you're willing to get a dedicated fridge for fermenting, or you
have a cellar that is reliably in the low to mid 60s, find a cooler big
enough to hold your fermenter plus some freezer packs or bottles of ice,
or else cobble one together out of styrofoam and scrap wood. I found
that keeping fermenting temps in the right range for the yeast made a
bigger improvement in my beer than anything else.

A decent thermometer for your stove work and another for the cooler are
really important.

A couple of good websites to read are http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com
and http://brulosophy.com

Brulosophy is all about testing methods of making beer. A lot of it
gets fairly technical, but one of the great things about it is that they
do a ton of blind taste tests and often find out that things people
think are big deals actually aren't. Often there are no noticable
differences between two ways of making beer, and when there is a
difference, often there is no clear preference among tasters. It's very
reassuring that way.

Shut Up About Barclay Perkins is a great dive into the history of beer,
and it is also reassuring because it knocks down a huge number of
beliefs. It also can be pretty technical, but the author, Ron
Pattinson, does a great job showing how much ideas and tastes have
changed over time, and how mixed up and contradictory things like beer
styles and traditions actually are. It's also very reassuring for home
brewers to know that there are good reasons to not get too worked up
over sticking to narrow targets for their IPAs and Stouts and other
styles. Plus he has published a ton of recipes.

[Joerg]

Post by Joerg

Post by Joerg
Hi there,
After not having brewed anything in over 30 years I want to test the
waters again. Or rather, the hops. Same for three neighbors, two of
whom also don't currently have brewing equipment. Would the Mr.Beer
kits like this one be suitable? I'd have to find the brewmaster's
version though because I like craft beer better.
http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Beer-Premium-Brewing-

Craft/dp/B001BCFUBU/ref=s

Post by Joerg
r_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1455808923&sr=8-1&keywords=Mr.Beer

Lots of good responses here, so this is just my take --
The Mr. Beer fermenter is fine for small batches, except the spigot is
kind of slow. I'm pretty sure there are people who have redrilled it
to take a regular spigot.

Mostly it'll be just my wife and I and such a small "brewery" stores
much easier without having to clutter up the garage.

Post by Joerg
Look into "brew in a bag" for all grain brewing. It's really simple and
you can brew almost any all grain recipe with a minimal investment in
equipment. It's especially well suited to smaller batches (although you
can scale up to 5 gallons easily) because it's easier to maneuver.

Thanks, didn't know that was available.

http://www.amazon.com/Brewers-Best-Brew-Bag-American/dp/B00JQJPNDK

It looks like Amazon upped the free ship requirement to $49. Not so cool.

Post by Joerg
One downside to brew in a bag is that you have to deal with a heavy wet
bag of grain after the mash, although people get around that by using
two bags or mashing in two containers. Probably the only trick is
getting a good fine grind to your grain. It's barely more hassle than
doing extract plus steeping.

Back in Europe we had a huge professional grade grinder for our
breadmaking but since it was heavy we gave it away before the move to
America. Should have kept it ...

Post by Joerg
I use glass bottles now but for quite a few batches I used plastic soda
and seltzer bottles with their original caps instead of glass bottles
with new caps. They hold carbonation for six months or more as long as
they haven't been reused too many times.

They would not have a chance to get six months old here :-)

Post by Joerg
... They are harder to clean than
glass so you want to recycle after a few batches and you obviously don't
need to buy a bottle capper. You generally need to be careful about
storing them in the dark or in boxes so you don't skunk the beer. Like
other people said, don't use regular water bottles.

No problem. We even store store-bought beer in brown and green bottles
in a large closed kitchen cabinet.

Post by Joerg
You can ferment in a bottling bucket as long as the spigot is high
enough to clear the trub, which means you really only need one bucket.
The downside is you may lose a few bottles due to some sludge transfer.

Or maybe tilt the bucket so the sludge concentrates into a corner.

Post by Joerg
There are a lot of people who use the "no chill" method which is also a
good way to simplify things. I don't, but it's supposed be very
straightforward. You need to fiddle with recipes to account for longer
exposure of hops, and you have to wait to start the fermentation, but
it's a way to skip cooling wort, which can be a pain.
Unless you're willing to get a dedicated fridge for fermenting, or you
have a cellar that is reliably in the low to mid 60s, find a cooler big
enough to hold your fermenter plus some freezer packs or bottles of ice,
or else cobble one together out of styrofoam and scrap wood. I found
that keeping fermenting temps in the right range for the yeast made a
bigger improvement in my beer than anything else.

I see that I have to learn and re-learn a lot about brewing. Luckily we
have a downstairs room which is fairly even in temperature. At least in
the winter it stays around a constant 60F.

Post by Joerg
A decent thermometer for your stove work and another for the cooler are
really important.
A couple of good websites to read are http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com
and http://brulosophy.com
Brulosophy is all about testing methods of making beer. A lot of it
gets fairly technical, but one of the great things about it is that they
do a ton of blind taste tests and often find out that things people
think are big deals actually aren't. Often there are no noticable
differences between two ways of making beer, and when there is a
difference, often there is no clear preference among tasters. It's very
reassuring that way.
Shut Up About Barclay Perkins is a great dive into the history of beer,
and it is also reassuring because it knocks down a huge number of
beliefs. It also can be pretty technical, but the author, Ron
Pattinson, does a great job showing how much ideas and tastes have
changed over time, and how mixed up and contradictory things like beer
styles and traditions actually are. It's also very reassuring for home
brewers to know that there are good reasons to not get too worked up
over sticking to narrow targets for their IPAs and Stouts and other
styles. Plus he has published a ton of recipes.

Thanks. Looks like those sites are more for brewers who have become very
skilled in the art. That'll take me a few years :-)

Thanks for all the hints, guys.

[baloonon]

Post by Joerg

Post by baloonon
Look into "brew in a bag" for all grain brewing. It's really simple
and you can brew almost any all grain recipe with a minimal
investment in equipment. It's especially well suited to smaller
batches (although you can scale up to 5 gallons easily) because it's
easier to maneuver.

Thanks, didn't know that was available.
http://www.amazon.com/Brewers-Best-Brew-Bag-American/dp/B00JQJPNDK
It looks like Amazon upped the free ship requirement to $49. Not so cool.

I'm not sure what's in that, but it says it doesn't include a bag. I'd
be leery of something like that. But you (almost never) need anything
custom made, as long as you can get well-ground grain. Some places will
mill it fine for you, but it will work if you just pulse it briefly a
pound or so at a time in a good blender or food processor. Warnings
about overgrinding aren't relevant to this method.

http://www.biabrewer.info/

Is a decent place to start for an intro. Basically, brew in a bag means
all grain brewing by heating around 7 gallons of water to about 160 F,
put a mesh bag in your pot, add about 10ish pounds of grain. Hold the
temp steady around 150ish for around an hour by putting the bag in the
oven set on warm, wrapping it in a sleeping bag and blankets, or keeping
it on a very low stove. After the hour pull the bag and the grain, let
it drip for 30 seconds or so then drop in a colander to drain the last
quart or so. Procede with your boil and hops. Toss the spent grain in
the compost.

The exact amounts and temps will vary by recipe, but it's really simple
when you get the hang of it, and there is a ton of info online. I don't
find it any harder than making an extract + steeping grain recipe or a
minimash.

A hydrometer is also a good investment, and they're maybe eight bucks.
They're really helpful for knowing whether you're in the right ballpark
when you start and when you finish fermenting, as long as you're not the
type to stress when the reading is 52 and you're supposed to get 50.
Nobody else needs to know.

[Ecnerwal]

Post by baloonon
put a mesh bag in your pot,

Best source so far - 5 gallon paint strainer bags. Wash (like a dish,
not like laundry) and rinse well before use, of course. You can even
sparge a little, if you want.

Post by baloonon
Toss the spent grain in the compost.

Or if you have a neighbor with chickens, or you have chickens, make VERY
HAPPY chickens...

And do get a hygrometer. That would be part of a basic kit.

An Jeorg, just go ahead and brew a batch rather than stressing about how
this is all more complicated than you remember. It's not THAT
complicated, really. It looks worse than it is, written out.

[baloonon]

Post by Ecnerwal

Post by baloonon
put a mesh bag in your pot,

Best source so far - 5 gallon paint strainer bags. Wash (like a dish,
not like laundry) and rinse well before use, of course. You can even
sparge a little, if you want.

Post by baloonon
Toss the spent grain in the compost.

Or if you have a neighbor with chickens, or you have chickens,
make VERY HAPPY chickens...
And do get a hygrometer. That would be part of a basic kit.
An Jeorg, just go ahead and brew a batch rather than stressing
about how this is all more complicated than you remember. It's
not THAT complicated, really. It looks worse than it is, written out.

I've found that doing prep stuff a day or three ahead really helps.
Measuring out the hops into separate ziplocs, making sure the pots are
clean, cleaning off the counters, mixing up the sanitizer, putting
everything together in a big plastic bin so there's no running around
finding stuff. It's like getting ready for vacation -- if you do
everything at the last minute it's a disaster but if you do it gradually
a couple of days ahead, you're so much less stressed.

I've also gotten a lot less stressed about recipes. I think a lot are
more complicated than really necessary because people are trying to hit
specific color or bitterness targets or they're trying to clone a
specific commercial beer. I typically now just go with two or one kind
of hops and just three or two types of grain, and round measurements to
avoid having odd fractional amounts of leftover grain and hops.

And I've also found myself being a lot less worried about meeting
expectations. If a beer is lighter in color or less bitter than I
initially planned, I ask myself if the product is still good regardless
of what I was going for. The answer is almost always that it's still a
good beer, so no worries.

[Ecnerwal]

Post by baloonon
I've also gotten a lot less stressed about recipes. I think a lot are
more complicated than really necessary because people are trying to hit
specific color or bitterness targets or they're trying to clone a
specific commercial beer. I typically now just go with two or one kind
of hops and just three or two types of grain, and round measurements to
avoid having odd fractional amounts of leftover grain and hops.

I'll give that an "amen brother" though I'm admittedly the guy who has
always been slated for going to hoighty-toighty beer heck since I never
did care all that much anyway. My out of the gate brew was a can of
unhopped extract, a pound of chocolate, a pound of black, and some hops.
I knew what I wanted, pretty much (these days I skip the black and use
even more chocolate - I think 3 lbs in a 5 gallon batch is the highest
I've gone, and it was not too high...) - and lo, it was good.

Post by baloonon
And I've also found myself being a lot less worried about meeting
expectations. If a beer is lighter in color or less bitter than I
initially planned, I ask myself if the product is still good regardless
of what I was going for. The answer is almost always that it's still a
good beer, so no worries.

Yup again. The only thing that I'd class as "horribly wrong" was an
experiment with Gambrinus honey malt, which simply did not turn out the
way I expected based on the description (though I was, as usual, using
it with somewhat more abandon than suggested by the sellers. I won't be
buying it again. Weird stuff, I'll stick with crystal malt.)

Last time I was really up and running I did several dark milds, which
are a lot of fun and comparatively easy, too. Lighter-colored milds
would also be comparatively easy, but my "home brewery" is named after a
black cat for a reason. I think I've made fizzy yellow beer once, and
that was still using Laaglander, so it was fizzy yellow beer with some
body to it.

Milds are, of course, anathema to the general run of high-test
homebrewers, where having an alcohol content more suited to wine is
considered a great thing. Getting drunk is not my primary aim. ;-)

[Joerg]

Post by baloonon

Post by Joerg

Post by baloonon
Look into "brew in a bag" for all grain brewing. It's really simple
and you can brew almost any all grain recipe with a minimal
investment in equipment. It's especially well suited to smaller
batches (although you can scale up to 5 gallons easily) because it's
easier to maneuver.

Thanks, didn't know that was available.
http://www.amazon.com/Brewers-Best-Brew-Bag-American/dp/B00JQJPNDK
It looks like Amazon upped the free ship requirement to $49. Not so

cool.
I'm not sure what's in that, but it says it doesn't include a bag. I'd
be leery of something like that. But you (almost never) need anything
custom made, as long as you can get well-ground grain. Some places will
mill it fine for you, but it will work if you just pulse it briefly a
pound or so at a time in a good blender or food processor. Warnings
about overgrinding aren't relevant to this method.

A food blender for grinding? That would be great because we have one.
Because we left out professional flour grinder in Europe before the move
across the pond. In hindsight we should not have left it.

Post by baloonon
http://www.biabrewer.info/
Is a decent place to start for an intro. Basically, brew in a bag means
all grain brewing by heating around 7 gallons of water to about 160 F,
put a mesh bag in your pot, add about 10ish pounds of grain. Hold the
temp steady around 150ish for around an hour by putting the bag in the
oven set on warm, wrapping it in a sleeping bag and blankets, or keeping
it on a very low stove. After the hour pull the bag and the grain, let
it drip for 30 seconds or so then drop in a colander to drain the last
quart or so. Procede with your boil and hops. Toss the spent grain in
the compost.
The exact amounts and temps will vary by recipe, but it's really simple
when you get the hang of it, and there is a ton of info online. I don't
find it any harder than making an extract + steeping grain recipe or a
minimash.
A hydrometer is also a good investment, and they're maybe eight bucks.
They're really helpful for knowing whether you're in the right ballpark
when you start and when you finish fermenting, as long as you're not the
type to stress when the reading is 52 and you're supposed to get 50.
Nobody else needs to know.

Thanks for the hints. Sounds complicated but as Lawrence wrote, I should
just get started. Unfortunately first my business workload has to let up
a bit and that's the tough part right now. I work in a specialty field
and sometimes one gets bogged down with clients and you can't really
turn them down. Looks like 2nd half of April when I can get into it. But
I want to be prepared, as the scout say. And now I am, thanks to you
guys and to the fact that I found the old Brewmeister supply in Folsom
back where I can buy pretty much all required stuff. Plus one of the
local pub owners (EDH Brewing in El Dorado Hills, CA) seems very helpful
in giving us hints what to do and where to be careful. I am on their
"frequent growler buyer list" :-)

[Ecnerwal]

As regards both soda and swing-top (Grolsch, and not-Grolsch with the
same style cap) bottles, there's really no need to personally buy the
original product (which you mentioned in two separate replies as
potential issues since you don't buy soda or overpriced Grolsch.)

If other people's empties make you nervous, you're doing sanitizing
wrong.

As a deposit state (at least I assume that's what "CA Cash Value"
implies on bottles, though presumably with some nuance since it's not
called a "deposit") I'd guess you could easily get them for the cost of
deposit or less, depending how much hassle getting the deposit back is.

Bucket of bleachwater (long soak if grungy) and a jet carboy and
bottlewasher will deal with the ugly stuff, then a good rinse and dry
and something more upscale like star-san or idophor (or just the good
rinse and dry, which is often entirely adequate, and does not require
any expensive bottle-trees or other foolishness stores like to sell.)
Read Palmer's book chapter on Sanitizing and Sterilizing, which I was
amused to note was the updated version of the printout from right here
I'd been dragging around for 20+ years.

In the "other worthwhile free reads" category, the English translation
of Pasteur's "Studies on Fermentation: The Diseases of Beer ..." is a
heck of a read, if requiring a bit of elderly-terminology-adjustment. I
suppose it's probably good in French as well, but not for me. There are
a few PDFs running around the internet as it's long out of copyright.
Don't know if the e-reader folks have glommed onto it yet, but project
Gutenberg had a number of sources, IIRC. Some were clearer than others,
IIRC.

[Joerg]

Post by Ecnerwal
As regards both soda and swing-top (Grolsch, and not-Grolsch with the
same style cap) bottles, there's really no need to personally buy the
original product (which you mentioned in two separate replies as
potential issues since you don't buy soda or overpriced Grolsch.)
If other people's empties make you nervous, you're doing sanitizing
wrong.

I'd have no problem with that, coming from Germany where regular beer
bottles get re-sterilized over and over until the glass wears off on the
outside.

Post by Ecnerwal
As a deposit state (at least I assume that's what "CA Cash Value"
implies on bottles, though presumably with some nuance since it's not
called a "deposit") I'd guess you could easily get them for the cost of
deposit or less, depending how much hassle getting the deposit back is.

In California where I live people sometimes bring them to transfer
stations. That's a grungy affair. Bottle mixed in with cans, oozing
ketchup bottles, dust, and so on. Also, the workers there aren't allowed
to sell them back to others. Other people throw their bottles either
into the trash or a recycling bin that gets set out on the curb.

The only reasonable way to obtain them is to ask neighbors not to toss
them, which should work.

Post by Ecnerwal
Bucket of bleachwater (long soak if grungy) and a jet carboy and
bottlewasher will deal with the ugly stuff, then a good rinse and dry
and something more upscale like star-san or idophor (or just the good
rinse and dry, which is often entirely adequate, and does not require
any expensive bottle-trees or other foolishness stores like to sell.)
Read Palmer's book chapter on Sanitizing and Sterilizing, which I was
amused to note was the updated version of the printout from right here
I'd been dragging around for 20+ years.
In the "other worthwhile free reads" category, the English translation
of Pasteur's "Studies on Fermentation: The Diseases of Beer ..." is a
heck of a read, if requiring a bit of elderly-terminology-adjustment. I
suppose it's probably good in French as well, but not for me. There are
a few PDFs running around the internet as it's long out of copyright.
Don't know if the e-reader folks have glommed onto it yet, but project
Gutenberg had a number of sources, IIRC. Some were clearer than others,
IIRC.

https://archive.org/download/studiesonfermen00robbgoog/studiesonfermen00robbgoog.pdf

[Bob F]

Post by Joerg
The only reasonable way to obtain them is to ask neighbors not to toss
them, which should work.

I've gotten many via postings on Craigslist or freecycle, all for free.

[Joerg]

Post by Bob F

Post by Joerg
The only reasonable way to obtain them is to ask neighbors not to toss
them, which should work.

I've gotten many via postings on Craigslist or freecycle, all for free.

That part is now almost solved for me. My wife brought home a 24-bottle
carton of Grolsch. I'll volunteer to vacate the contents of those
bottles :-)

We also have three growlers and some odds and ends so all that should
take care of a 5-gal batch.

[Bob F]

Post by Joerg

Post by Bob F

Post by Joerg
The only reasonable way to obtain them is to ask neighbors not to
toss them, which should work.

I've gotten many via postings on Craigslist or freecycle, all for free.

That part is now almost solved for me. My wife brought home a
24-bottle carton of Grolsch. I'll volunteer to vacate the contents of
those bottles :-)
We also have three growlers and some odds and ends so all that should
take care of a 5-gal batch.

Just keep your eyes open. If you do get into brewing, you'll need more than 1
case. You could be the one to save many from the recycle bin.

[jemphd]

Post by Joerg
Hi there,
After not having brewed anything in over 30 years I want to test the
waters again. Or rather, the hops. Same for three neighbors, two of whom
also don't currently have brewing equipment. Would the Mr.Beer kits like
this one be suitable? I'd have to find the brewmaster's version though
because I like craft beer better.
http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Beer-Premium-Brewing-Craft/dp/B001BCFUBU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1455808923&sr=8-1&keywords=Mr.Beer
I am looking for something that doesn't require large upfront cash and
that I could keep using for small batches every once in a while. Looks
like these kits ease the chore of bottling which I remember was not
always as easy as it sounds.
Is there a discount place for hobby brewing supplies such as Pricepoint
or Nashbar are for bicyclists?
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Also check your local craigslist, searching beer, kit, pots, etc

[Joerg]

Post by jemphd

Post by Joerg
Hi there,
After not having brewed anything in over 30 years I want to test the
waters again. Or rather, the hops. Same for three neighbors, two of whom
also don't currently have brewing equipment. Would the Mr.Beer kits like
this one be suitable? I'd have to find the brewmaster's version though
because I like craft beer better.
http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Beer-Premium-Brewing-Craft/dp/B001BCFUBU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1455808923&sr=8-1&keywords=Mr.Beer
I am looking for something that doesn't require large upfront cash and
that I could keep using for small batches every once in a while. Looks
like these kits ease the chore of bottling which I remember was not
always as easy as it sounds.
Is there a discount place for hobby brewing supplies such as Pricepoint
or Nashbar are for bicyclists?
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Also check your local craigslist, searching beer, kit, pots, etc

Yes, Bob had suggested that and I'll keep an eye out.

Regarding bottles:

I've begun to collect Grolsch bottles which are 450ml or a little under
a pint each. They have a nice flip-top, the rubber seal ring can be
replaced and no capper needed. Grolsch is expensive just to get the
bottles but I really like its taste.

How about glass screw cap glass bottles maybe with some rubber or
neoprene underneath the cap?

Also, my wife sometimes makes sloe gin but with different berries and
the gin for that comes in 1.5 liter plastic gin bottles that make a very
sturdy impression. Would they be ok for beer?

All stored in a dark place, of course.

[T.J. Higgins]

Post by Joerg
How about glass screw cap glass bottles maybe with some rubber or
neoprene underneath the cap?
Also, my wife sometimes makes sloe gin but with different berries and
the gin for that comes in 1.5 liter plastic gin bottles that make a very
sturdy impression. Would they be ok for beer?

Any glass containers you use need to be able to handle the
pressures of carbonation. Most glass bottles are not designed
for this and are glass grenades waiting to happen when used for
homebrew.

Grolsch bottles and champagne bottles are OK. So are returnable
beer bottles if you can find them. Non-returnables are made of
very thin glass; I don't trust them for my homebrew.

Plastic bottles (e.g. soda pop, soda water) are usually OK. The
gin bottles would probably work but might impart some residual
flavor to your beer; same for soda pop bottles. Keep in mind that
many plastic bottles are slightly gas permeable so you can't use
them for long-term storage. I've used soda water bottles for many
years of brewing and they work fine as long as you consume the beer
within a few months.

[Joerg]

Post by T.J. Higgins

Post by Joerg
How about glass screw cap glass bottles maybe with some rubber or
neoprene underneath the cap?
Also, my wife sometimes makes sloe gin but with different berries and
the gin for that comes in 1.5 liter plastic gin bottles that make a very
sturdy impression. Would they be ok for beer?

Any glass containers you use need to be able to handle the
pressures of carbonation. Most glass bottles are not designed
for this and are glass grenades waiting to happen when used for
homebrew.

Ok, thanks, then regular glass bottles are out.

Post by T.J. Higgins
Grolsch bottles and champagne bottles are OK. So are returnable
beer bottles if you can find them. Non-returnables are made of
very thin glass; I don't trust them for my homebrew.

We used Grolsch bottles in my younger brewing days because that saved us
the expense of caps and a capper. Stacks of crates. Beer is much cheaper
in Europe and sold in real crates, 20 bottles at a time. It's a true
deposit system instead of a partial tax like here. I paid six Guilders
deposit per full crate and we just kept them a while. Later I returned
them and got the whole six Guilders back.

We did have a few of them grenade on us though.

Post by T.J. Higgins
Plastic bottles (e.g. soda pop, soda water) are usually OK. The
gin bottles would probably work but might impart some residual
flavor to your beer; same for soda pop bottles. ...

Should be ok because gin is quite pure. It doesn't really have much of a
taste other than alcohol.

Post by T.J. Higgins
... Keep in mind that
many plastic bottles are slightly gas permeable so you can't use
them for long-term storage. I've used soda water bottles for many
years of brewing and they work fine as long as you consume the beer
within a few months.

With me beer does not stand a chance to reach that age :-)

[Joerg]

Post by Joerg

Post by T.J. Higgins

Post by Joerg
How about glass screw cap glass bottles maybe with some rubber or
neoprene underneath the cap?
Also, my wife sometimes makes sloe gin but with different berries and
the gin for that comes in 1.5 liter plastic gin bottles that make a very
sturdy impression. Would they be ok for beer?

Any glass containers you use need to be able to handle the
pressures of carbonation. Most glass bottles are not designed
for this and are glass grenades waiting to happen when used for
homebrew.

Ok, thanks, then regular glass bottles are out.

Post by T.J. Higgins
Grolsch bottles and champagne bottles are OK. So are returnable
beer bottles if you can find them. Non-returnables are made of
very thin glass; I don't trust them for my homebrew.

We used Grolsch bottles in my younger brewing days because that saved us
the expense of caps and a capper. Stacks of crates. Beer is much cheaper
in Europe and sold in real crates, 20 bottles at a time. It's a true
deposit system instead of a partial tax like here. I paid six Guilders
deposit per full crate and we just kept them a while. Later I returned
them and got the whole six Guilders back.
We did have a few of them grenade on us though.

Post by T.J. Higgins
Plastic bottles (e.g. soda pop, soda water) are usually OK. The
gin bottles would probably work but might impart some residual
flavor to your beer; same for soda pop bottles. ...

Should be ok because gin is quite pure. It doesn't really have much of a
taste other than alcohol.

Post by T.J. Higgins
... Keep in mind that
many plastic bottles are slightly gas permeable so you can't use
them for long-term storage. I've used soda water bottles for many
years of brewing and they work fine as long as you consume the beer
within a few months.

With me beer does not stand a chance to reach that age :-)

My wife just gave me a great present: A carton with 24 bottles of
Grolsch. Yeehaw! That takes care of 3 gallons of future homebrew, plus
we have three growlers.

Of course, now the task of emptying all those Grolsch bottles begins.
Tough, tough :-)