Corn sugar, which grocery chain has it or alternatives?

Post by Joerg
Midwest Supplies has started to charge extra for corn sugar. Two bucks
for 5oz. Hurumph! I still have some because I use much less than these
(IMHO not accurate) carbonation calculators indicate.
Which grocery chains carry corn sugar at a more normal price? What

other sugar types can one use for bottle carbonation?

Post by Joerg
I also always have clover honey but due to its high viscosity that's
hard to dose.

I just use plain white sugar for priming, dissolved in some boiling
water in a coffee mug and added to the bottling bucket shortly after I
start transferring the beer to the bucket.

I try to buy supplies from my local brewing store, but if I buy online I
usually go to http://farmhousebrewingsuppply.com , which usually has
reasonable shipping, or http://morebeer.com , which has free shipping on
(I think) orders of $70 or more. Both sell corn sugar for less than
Midwest. FYI, Midwest was sold to Anheuser Busch, if that kind of thing
matters to you. Personally, I don't have a problem, but some people
don't want to support them. It's not a bad idea to get on Farmhouse's
email list -- sometimes they have some very good sales on hops.

Joerg

2018-09-29 14:36:24 UTC

other sugar types can one use for bottle carbonation?

Post by Joerg
I also always have clover honey but due to its high viscosity that's
hard to dose.

I just use plain white sugar for priming, dissolved in some boiling
water in a coffee mug and added to the bottling bucket shortly after I
start transferring the beer to the bucket.
I try to buy supplies from my local brewing store, but if I buy online I
usually go to http://farmhousebrewingsuppply.com , which usually has
reasonable shipping, or http://morebeer.com , which has free shipping on
(I think) orders of $70 or more. Both sell corn sugar for less than
Midwest. FYI, Midwest was sold to Anheuser Busch, if that kind of thing
matters to you. Personally, I don't have a problem, but some people
don't want to support them. It's not a bad idea to get on Farmhouse's
email list -- sometimes they have some very good sales on hops.

Ownership doesn't bother me, the people at Midwest are still the same
and very friendly. That's what matters most to me. We have a local place
but prices there can be 2x. For example, the ingredients for an IPA
extract kit would cost me over $45 there while I get it as a kit for
half at Midwest, free shipping over $30, meaning already for two simple
kits or one of the more special beers. They also often have 10-20% off
sales and that's when I order half a dozen kits or more.

Farm House doesn't seem to publish the ingredient list and no other kit
details, on their Koelsch I couldn't even see whether it's extract or
grain. Due to cramped space and time I need extract. I am actually
looking for a new Koelsch kit because Midwest took the specialty grains
out and that can't be a good thing.

If someone wants to check the links as well, some browsers require this
version for the Farmhouse link to go through:

https://www.farmhousebrewingsupply.com/

With Morebeer they don't have a Koelsch but their Oktoberfest looks
tempting. Plus they list the ingredients including the steeping grain
contents which Midwest doesn't disclose. Thanks for the hints.

I'll use plain white sugar then once I run out of corn sugar, like you
suggested.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

baloonon

2018-09-29 20:05:59 UTC

Post by Joerg
Farm House doesn't seem to publish the ingredient list and no
other kit
details, on their Koelsch I couldn't even see whether it's extract or
grain. Due to cramped space and time I need extract. I am actually
looking for a new Koelsch kit because Midwest took the specialty
grains out and that can't be a good thing.

I've only gotten hops from Farmhouse, and I wouldn't be surprised if they
don't have the extensive number of kits as Midwest.

Northern and Austin are two others with a ton of kits. I know that Northern
has full recipes available (or did at one time). I don't know about Austin.

When I did extract brewing there was a place that sold bulk DME for very
reasonable prices, but I lost their address. It might be worth looking for
them. For basic recipes it's not a bad idea to look into ordering the
ingredients separately to see if there are savings that way. I've shifted
toward the perspective that most recipes you see online are twice as
complicated as they really need to be, and get caught up chasing false
precision for things like color and IBUs and attenuation. If you keep a few
base grains, a couple of types of crystal, a few specialty grains, and are
willing to do a bit of toasting yourself, you can cover most types of beer.
Likewise with hops -- I'm thinking maybe six or so pretty much covers the
types of beer I like to make, and that includes English, US, German and
Belgian.

Post by Joerg
With Morebeer they don't have a Koelsch but their Oktoberfest looks
tempting. Plus they list the ingredients including the steeping grain
contents which Midwest doesn't disclose. Thanks for the hints.
I'll use plain white sugar then once I run out of corn sugar, like you
suggested.

If you want to be truly authentic with German beers you can do a mini mash
of some base grain and add that the the bottling bucket, but that seems
like far more work than needed from my perspective.

Joerg

2018-10-01 23:45:26 UTC

Full recipe is important to me before buying any kit.

Post by baloonon
When I did extract brewing there was a place that sold bulk DME for very
reasonable prices, but I lost their address. It might be worth looking for
them.

I have looked up and down for places that sell either DME or malt
extract at reasonable prices but came up dry. It was mostly so expensive
that buying and then modifying a beer kit is much cheaper. Shipping is
often the killer. Beer kit sellers offer free shipping if the order is
large enough. The base malt extract and DME places I found didn't.

Post by baloonon
... For basic recipes it's not a bad idea to look into ordering the
ingredients separately to see if there are savings that way.

There never were for me.

Post by baloonon
... I've shifted
toward the perspective that most recipes you see online are twice as
complicated as they really need to be, and get caught up chasing false
precision for things like color and IBUs and attenuation. If you keep a few
base grains, a couple of types of crystal, a few specialty grains, and are
willing to do a bit of toasting yourself, you can cover most types of beer.
Likewise with hops -- I'm thinking maybe six or so pretty much covers the
types of beer I like to make, and that includes English, US, German and
Belgian.

For all grain that sounds like a good approach but for us lowly extract
brewers life is less easy.

If you want to be truly authentic with German beers you can do a mini mash
of some base grain and add that the the bottling bucket, but that seems
like far more work than needed from my perspective.

Yeah, I don't want to go overboard with it :-)

We still have some 5oz corn sugar bags because I found that the normal
carbonation calculators are way off. I only use 2-1/2oz of corn sugar
for a 5-gallon batch. It results in adequate carbonation and has cut
down on the number of grenading bottles. Once the corn sugar runs out
I'll switch to regular sugar.

I just bottled a Pale Ale and a Copper Ale. Tomorrow I'll brew two
Saisons. It's getting colder so I may have to heat the fermentation
chamber for the first time this ear, since BE-134 likes it warmer.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

baloonon

2018-10-04 02:17:17 UTC

On 2018-09-29 13:05, baloonon wrote:>

Post by baloonon
When I did extract brewing there was a place that sold bulk DME for
very reasonable prices, but I lost their address. It might be worth
looking for them.

I have looked up and down for places that sell either DME or malt
extract at reasonable prices but came up dry. It was mostly so
expensive that buying and then modifying a beer kit is much cheaper.
Shipping is often the killer. Beer kit sellers offer free shipping if
the order is large enough. The base malt extract and DME places I
found didn't.

It's certainly possible the place I bought DME from is gone now.

Looking around, it looks like you can buy 50 pound bags of DME for a decent
savings per pound, even including shipping. DME in large quantities seems
like it would be kind of a pain, though, since it's so susceptible to
static electricity, clumps up at the hint of moisture, etc.

I would guess it's also impractical if you use different types of DME.

Post by baloonon
... I've shifted
toward the perspective that most recipes you see online are twice as
complicated as they really need to be, and get caught up chasing
false precision for things like color and IBUs and attenuation. If
you keep a few base grains, a couple of types of crystal, a few
specialty grains, and are willing to do a bit of toasting yourself,
you can cover most types of beer. Likewise with hops -- I'm thinking
maybe six or so pretty much covers the types of beer I like to make,
and that includes English, US, German and Belgian.

For all grain that sounds like a good approach but for us lowly
extract brewers life is less easy.

It may be more feasible than you think. The same base of light DME can work
for with a minimash of a small number of malts for IPAs, Stouts, a lot of
Belgians. If you're willing to branch out into slightly larger sized
partial mashes, you ought to be able to do decent Brown Ales, Festbiers,
dark Germans, and more. The nice thing about minimashes and partial mashes
is that if you have room in the fridge you can do a gallon or two a couple
of days ahead of time, store it in the fridge, and then add it to your
boiling pot of DME on the main brew day if you want to shift your time a
bit.

Post by Joerg
With Morebeer they don't have a Koelsch but their Oktoberfest looks
tempting. Plus they list the ingredients including the steeping
grain contents which Midwest doesn't disclose. Thanks for the hints.

Their shipping tends to be fast. I find their selection of ingredients is a
bit limited, but they tend to cover all of the basics.

I just bottled a Pale Ale and a Copper Ale. Tomorrow I'll brew two
Saisons. It's getting colder so I may have to heat the fermentation
chamber for the first time this ear, since BE-134 likes it warmer.

I've got a Porter with a ton of chocolate malt finishing fermenting and I
plan on adding some oak chips before bottling. With luck it will be good
before Christmas,

Joerg

2018-10-04 14:35:17 UTC

On 2018-09-29 13:05, baloonon wrote:>

Post by baloonon
When I did extract brewing there was a place that sold bulk DME for
very reasonable prices, but I lost their address. It might be worth
looking for them.

I have looked up and down for places that sell either DME or malt
extract at reasonable prices but came up dry. It was mostly so
expensive that buying and then modifying a beer kit is much cheaper.
Shipping is often the killer. Beer kit sellers offer free shipping if
the order is large enough. The base malt extract and DME places I
found didn't.

It's certainly possible the place I bought DME from is gone now.
Looking around, it looks like you can buy 50 pound bags of DME for a decent
savings per pound, even including shipping. DME in large quantities seems
like it would be kind of a pain, though, since it's so susceptible to
static electricity, clumps up at the hint of moisture, etc.
I would guess it's also impractical if you use different types of DME.

It would be impractical. We'd need sealed containers like we use for dog
food. It would still clump every time it's opened. The only way DME can
be stored would be in individually sealed 3-5lbs pouches and then it's
expensive.

Post by baloonon
... I've shifted
toward the perspective that most recipes you see online are twice as
complicated as they really need to be, and get caught up chasing
false precision for things like color and IBUs and attenuation. If
you keep a few base grains, a couple of types of crystal, a few
specialty grains, and are willing to do a bit of toasting yourself,
you can cover most types of beer. Likewise with hops -- I'm thinking
maybe six or so pretty much covers the types of beer I like to make,
and that includes English, US, German and Belgian.

For all grain that sounds like a good approach but for us lowly
extract brewers life is less easy.

That is a good idea. I'll have to educate myself on that. I can get
paint strainer bags for partial mash and I've also got dozens of smaller
muslin bags. The main reason why I do not do full BIAB mashes is that
I'd have to lift out the bag(s) in a cramped space, no way to install a
pulley system, and my lower back isn't in good shape. Then there is the
matter of disposing of the spent grain. All the folks I gave them to in
the past had their chickens killed by coyotes, bobcats and the like so
no more takers.

Post by Joerg
With Morebeer they don't have a Koelsch but their Oktoberfest looks
tempting. Plus they list the ingredients including the steeping
grain contents which Midwest doesn't disclose. Thanks for the hints.

Their shipping tends to be fast. I find their selection of ingredients is a
bit limited, but they tend to cover all of the basics.

I'll have to call them.

I've got a Porter with a ton of chocolate malt finishing fermenting and I
plan on adding some oak chips before bottling. With luck it will be good
before Christmas,

You guys are so patient. I already start squirming in my seat when
waiting out the 12 weeks for a Belgian Quadrupel. Long story short I
couldn't wait and cut secondary a week short. Had another one yesterday.
Way too strong for my wife so they are almost all mine 8-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

baloonon

2018-10-06 01:33:27 UTC

Post by Joerg
For all grain that sounds like a good approach but for us lowly
extract brewers life is less easy.

It may be more feasible than you think. The same base of light DME
can work for with a minimash of a small number of malts for IPAs,
Stouts, a lot of Belgians. If you're willing to branch out into
slightly larger sized partial mashes, you ought to be able to do
decent Brown Ales, Festbiers, dark Germans, and more. The nice thing
about minimashes and partial mashes is that if you have room in the
fridge you can do a gallon or two a couple of days ahead of time,
store it in the fridge, and then add it to your boiling pot of DME on
the main brew day if you want to shift your time a bit.

That is a good idea. I'll have to educate myself on that. I can get
paint strainer bags for partial mash and I've also got dozens of
smaller muslin bags. The main reason why I do not do full BIAB mashes
is that I'd have to lift out the bag(s) in a cramped space, no way to
install a pulley system, and my lower back isn't in good shape. Then
there is the matter of disposing of the spent grain. All the folks I
gave them to in the past had their chickens killed by coyotes, bobcats
and the like so no more takers.

Partial mashes are really easy as long as you have a reasonably good
thermometer and a brew in a bag online calculator handy or brewing
software, so you know the right volume of water and starting temperature.
You're just trying to hit a starting temp around 153F (varies by recipe)
and generally just hold it there for an hour, which you can usually do in
an oven or by putting the pot in a cooler, maybe with another container of
hot water. You have some flexibility in temp too, so if you aren't exactly
right it's OK.

You can easily do two or even three pounds of grain in a two gallon pot,
with a net of one gallon of wort. That gives you a lot of flexibility. You
can't do a true Vienna lager, Bitter or Pilsner, but you can do a decent
Festbier, Brown Ale, lots of Belgians, Stouts, fancier IPAs -- beers which
need a good contribution of specialty malts on top of a base of extract.
You can also do a fair amount of experimentation just for the heck of it.

You generally want some base malt in there to help with conversion, but a
lot of times what you're mashing is a well-converting malt -- say you're
mashing rye malt for an IPA. It helps to have a fine grind on your grain,
which can even be done in several batches in a blender if you don't have a
grinder or can't get the store to do it.

Post by baloonon
I've got a Porter with a ton of chocolate malt finishing fermenting
and I plan on adding some oak chips before bottling. With luck it
will be good before Christmas,

You guys are so patient. I already start squirming in my seat when
waiting out the 12 weeks for a Belgian Quadrupel. Long story short I
couldn't wait and cut secondary a week short. Had another one
yesterday. Way too strong for my wife so they are almost all mine 8-)

It helps that I can't stay up late on weeknights and rarely have more than
one beer. Also, my wife rarely drinks beer.

Joerg

2018-10-06 19:39:49 UTC

Post by Joerg
For all grain that sounds like a good approach but for us lowly
extract brewers life is less easy.

It may be more feasible than you think. The same base of light DME
can work for with a minimash of a small number of malts for IPAs,
Stouts, a lot of Belgians. If you're willing to branch out into
slightly larger sized partial mashes, you ought to be able to do
decent Brown Ales, Festbiers, dark Germans, and more. The nice thing
about minimashes and partial mashes is that if you have room in the
fridge you can do a gallon or two a couple of days ahead of time,
store it in the fridge, and then add it to your boiling pot of DME on
the main brew day if you want to shift your time a bit.

That is a good idea. I'll have to educate myself on that. I can get
paint strainer bags for partial mash and I've also got dozens of
smaller muslin bags. The main reason why I do not do full BIAB mashes
is that I'd have to lift out the bag(s) in a cramped space, no way to
install a pulley system, and my lower back isn't in good shape. Then
there is the matter of disposing of the spent grain. All the folks I
gave them to in the past had their chickens killed by coyotes, bobcats
and the like so no more takers.

That's almost like the steeping I now do. I heat 5-1/2 gallons to 158F
and put in the steeping grains. That drops it to 155F which is usually
the recommended temperature. The bag stays in for about 25 mins. I use
two 1kW electric burners under a wide 13-gallon tamale steamer pot which
is my brew kettle. Then I turn one burner off and the other to "1" which
keeps it around 155F. I rigged a sensor for a radio thermometer which
transmits to upstairs in the house so I can monitor things occasionally
but can do something in the office. After 25 mins I pull it out, hang it
onto a hook and let it drip, then I gently squeeze it out.

Post by baloonon
You can easily do two or even three pounds of grain in a two gallon pot,
with a net of one gallon of wort. That gives you a lot of flexibility. You
can't do a true Vienna lager, Bitter or Pilsner, but you can do a decent
Festbier, Brown Ale, lots of Belgians, Stouts, fancier IPAs -- beers which
need a good contribution of specialty malts on top of a base of extract.
You can also do a fair amount of experimentation just for the heck of it.
You generally want some base malt in there to help with conversion, but a
lot of times what you're mashing is a well-converting malt -- say you're
mashing rye malt for an IPA. It helps to have a fine grind on your grain,
which can even be done in several batches in a blender if you don't have a
grinder or can't get the store to do it.

On issue would be to store the grains. When I buy kits pre-crushed
grains are in sealed pouches. Maybe ziplock is enough for fresh
uncrushed grains. I can't have any freezer space except very little for
hop pellets since the freezers are usually maxed out.

Post by baloonon
I've got a Porter with a ton of chocolate malt finishing fermenting
and I plan on adding some oak chips before bottling. With luck it
will be good before Christmas,

You guys are so patient. I already start squirming in my seat when
waiting out the 12 weeks for a Belgian Quadrupel. Long story short I
couldn't wait and cut secondary a week short. Had another one
yesterday. Way too strong for my wife so they are almost all mine 8-)

It helps that I can't stay up late on weeknights and rarely have more than
one beer. Also, my wife rarely drinks beer.

We both grew up in Germany where beer is considered basic nutrition :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Andreas Weber

2018-10-20 10:01:03 UTC

... What other
sugar types can one use for bottle carbonation?

I use Karamalz or Vitamalz (maltbeer) for this because it's easy to dose
without a precision scale.

-- Andy

[1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karamalz
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamalz

Joerg

2018-10-20 14:11:32 UTC

Post by Andreas Weber

... What other sugar types can one use for bottle carbonation?

I use Karamalz or Vitamalz (maltbeer) for this because it's easy to dose
without a precision scale.
-- Andy
[1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karamalz
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamalz

I remember those from my days in German, used to drink that as a kid.
However, in the US we cannot obtain any such product. Over here kids
drink root beer which ... <ahem> ... has a horrid taste.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Baloonon

2018-10-22 01:58:30 UTC

Post by Andreas Weber

... What other sugar types can one use for bottle carbonation?

I use Karamalz or Vitamalz (maltbeer) for this because it's easy to

dose without a precision scale.

Post by Andreas Weber
-- Andy
[1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karamalz
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamalz

I remember those from my days in German, used to drink that as a kid.
However, in the US we cannot obtain any such product. Over here kids
drink root beer which ... <ahem> ... has a horrid taste.

Sounds like Malta Goya, which is a non-alcoholic malt beverage sold in
my grocery store with other Latino food made by Goya.

I tried it once, and I'm not a fan.

Joerg

2018-10-23 16:36:32 UTC

Post by Baloonon

Post by Andreas Weber

... What other sugar types can one use for bottle carbonation?

I use Karamalz or Vitamalz (maltbeer) for this because it's easy to

dose without a precision scale.