Banana flavor from Wyeast 3787

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I brewed a tripel using Wyeast 3787 (High gravity trappist) and upon
initial tasting (about 3 weeks after brewing) it has a strong
yeast/banana flavor. It also has a strong alcoholic taste (~10%) that
I know will fade with aging. My question is, will the banana flavor
fade with aging as well or am I stuck with it. It was fermented at
about 75 degrees, but that yeast has a range up to 85 degrees and
stated it had relatively low esters. Any thoughts on this would be
helpful.

[Richard Kaszeta]

Post by ***@yahoo.com
I brewed a tripel using Wyeast 3787 (High gravity trappist) and upon
initial tasting (about 3 weeks after brewing) it has a strong
yeast/banana flavor. It also has a strong alcoholic taste (~10%) that
I know will fade with aging. My question is, will the banana flavor
fade with aging as well or am I stuck with it. It was fermented at
about 75 degrees, but that yeast has a range up to 85 degrees and
stated it had relatively low esters.

Low esters? Really? Every description I have of 3787 reads like "a
rich estery profile", suggesting that it has high ester content.

[Joel]

Post by Richard Kaszeta

Post by ***@yahoo.com
I brewed a tripel using Wyeast 3787 (High gravity trappist) and upon
initial tasting (about 3 weeks after brewing) it has a strong
yeast/banana flavor. It also has a strong alcoholic taste (~10%) that
I know will fade with aging. My question is, will the banana flavor
fade with aging as well or am I stuck with it. It was fermented at
about 75 degrees, but that yeast has a range up to 85 degrees and
stated it had relatively low esters.

Low esters? Really? Every description I have of 3787 reads like "a
rich estery profile", suggesting that it has high ester content.

I think something got lost in translation somewhere. Wyeast's
description says "this strain produces intense esters and phenolic
characteristics with complex fruitiness." But it goes on to say
"does not produce significant amount of iso-amyl acetate (banana
esters) ... typical of many yeast of this style." So yes to
esters but no to bananas.

(I'm not sure where the "up to 85 degrees" comes from, as the
Wyeast web site gives a range of 64-78F.)

[Joel]

Post by ***@yahoo.com
I brewed a tripel using Wyeast 3787 (High gravity trappist) and upon
initial tasting (about 3 weeks after brewing) it has a strong
yeast/banana flavor. It also has a strong alcoholic taste (~10%) that
I know will fade with aging. My question is, will the banana flavor
fade with aging as well or am I stuck with it. It was fermented at
about 75 degrees, but that yeast has a range up to 85 degrees and
stated it had relatively low esters. Any thoughts on this would be
helpful.

See my post from an hour or so ago regarding temperature.
I am not a fan of banana esters in beer, and use 3787 a lot.
I ferment in the mid-60's (F).

[Denny Conn]

Post by Joel
See my post from an hour or so ago regarding temperature.
I am not a fan of banana esters in beer, and use 3787 a lot.
I ferment in the mid-60's (F).

I use a lot of 3787, too, and almost always in the same temp range.
Recently, though, after hearing people report good results with it at
higher temps, I brewed with it in the 75-78F range. Really freaked me out,
but I MADE myself do it! Initially, the beer was really heavy on the
banana esters. After about 6-8 weeks of aging, though, it's mellowed
considerably. The banana is barely noticeable now.

--------->Denny


--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.

[Joel]

Post by Denny Conn

Post by Joel
See my post from an hour or so ago regarding temperature.
I am not a fan of banana esters in beer, and use 3787 a lot.
I ferment in the mid-60's (F).

I use a lot of 3787, too, and almost always in the same temp range.
Recently, though, after hearing people report good results with it at
higher temps, I brewed with it in the 75-78F range. Really freaked me out,
but I MADE myself do it! Initially, the beer was really heavy on the
banana esters. After about 6-8 weeks of aging, though, it's mellowed
considerably. The banana is barely noticeable now.

So do you think the higher temperature and longer
aging made a better beer? Better in the sense that
you like it better than a cooler/quicker beer, of
course.

[Denny Conn]

Post by Joel
So do you think the higher temperature and longer
aging made a better beer? Better in the sense that
you like it better than a cooler/quicker beer, of
course.

I'm not really sure if I like it better or not. I did it mainly as an
experiment, since I'd heard so may comments about "that's the way the
Belgians
do it" and the additional flavor added by the higher temps. I do think
it's
different from 3787 fermented 10 degrees cooler, and it's definitely not
bad.
But I'd have to do a side by side tasting to determine if it's better,
and I
don't have any that was fernebted cooler to compare it to. I guess the
only
thing I can really say is that the higher temps weren't detrimental to
it.

------------>Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.

[John Heubel]

Post by Denny Conn

Post by Joel
So do you think the higher temperature and longer
aging made a better beer? Better in the sense that
you like it better than a cooler/quicker beer, of
course.

I'm not really sure if I like it better or not. I did it mainly as an
experiment, since I'd heard so may comments about "that's the way the
Belgians
do it" and the additional flavor added by the higher temps. I do think
it's
different from 3787 fermented 10 degrees cooler, and it's definitely not
bad.
But I'd have to do a side by side tasting to determine if it's better,
and I
don't have any that was fernebted cooler to compare it to. I guess the
only
thing I can really say is that the higher temps weren't detrimental to
it.

I did a similar higher temp ferment with it that didn't turn out nearly as
well as ferments in the 60s. The higher temp beer did not score all that
well in a BURP competition 2-3years ago due mainly to the higher alcohols.
That said, it also didn't have a real lengthy aging to it before the comp.

A recent Triple fermented in the 60s took 2nd in this years War of the Worts
as a Strong Golden Ale.

[Al Fresco]

I love banana beer. I hate it when the bananas go away.

Post by Denny Conn

Post by Joel
See my post from an hour or so ago regarding temperature.
I am not a fan of banana esters in beer, and use 3787 a lot.
I ferment in the mid-60's (F).

I use a lot of 3787, too, and almost always in the same temp range.
Recently, though, after hearing people report good results with it at
higher temps, I brewed with it in the 75-78F range. Really freaked me out,
but I MADE myself do it! Initially, the beer was really heavy on the
banana esters. After about 6-8 weeks of aging, though, it's mellowed
considerably. The banana is barely noticeable now.
--------->Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.

[(East Bay) Phil]

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 17:13:13 -0400

Post by Al Fresco
I love banana beer. I hate it when the bananas go away.

:-) Heh. When I drink banana beer, I always ask myself:
"If it's so easy to make this flavor, how is it that candy manufacturers
always get it wrong?"

2c

[Denny Conn]

Post by Al Fresco
I love banana beer. I hate it when the bananas go away.

You are a very sick man....;)

----------->Denny
--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.

[[e-mail]]

One other question... Is it better to age a beer like this at ale
temps or should it be cold conditioned?

[Denny Conn]

Post by ***@yahoo.com
One other question... Is it better to age a beer like this at ale
temps or should it be cold conditioned?

Kinda deopends on what ya wanna end up with. Cold conditioning will
reduce more esters more quickly. But "cellar" or room temps will still
give you the overall "flavor blending" effect without reducing the
esters as much.

--------->Denny

--
Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.

[(East Bay) Phil]

I'm curious if you smelled the banana in the airlock during primary. I
just used this yeast - still in secondary - and actively kept it around
75 F ambient. It threw acetaldehyde (apple), no banana. On a side
note, the same batch was split amongst Duvel yeast and WL 530. The
Duvel through intense banana (even through kept cooler) and 530 threw
plum.

Phil

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Thjats what I get for writing a post based on memory from a month ago.
The 85 degrees was for 3522 Belgian Ardennes Yeast. The low esthers
came from 3864 Canadian/Belgian Style Yeast. It all got munged in my
mind. In the end though. The question remains the same, will this
banana flavor subside? From Denny's post it appers it will subside
(thanks!). Any other experiences out there?

[[e-mail]]

Thats what I get for writing a post based on memory from a month ago.
The 85 degrees was for 3522 Belgian Ardennes Yeast. The low esthers
came from 3864 Canadian/Belgian Style Yeast. It all got munged in my
mind. In the end though. The question remains the same, will this
banana flavor subside? From Denny's post it appers it will subside
(thanks!). Any other experiences out there?

[[e-mail]]

I didn't notice a banana aroma but thinking back there was an apple
aroma during the primary.

[Pascal]

Post by ***@yahoo.com
I brewed a tripel using Wyeast 3787 (High gravity trappist) and upon

I used Wyeast 3787, fermented at 20/21°C ambient temp with 8 weeks
secondary at 8/10°C. The result is really great, flavours are blending
very nicely and no predominent banana flavour.
I made one beer with wyeast Weihenstephaner : it had a lot of banana
flavour but it is going away, faster than I'd thought.
All in all it's back to basics : let the beer age it always gets
better ! But not too long...

Pascal