Mathematically speaking .........

[Steve B]

What is your retail cost on beer where you live?

In Utah, it runs from 15 to 40 cents per liquid ounce. And some of that is
3.2% beer.

In Nevada, for the Natural Ice, and that reallllly cheap stuff, it is about
4 to 5 cents per ounce. $16 per 30 pack. Other beers go up from there, but
most standards are around eight cents, like Bud, Coors, etc. The bombers of
odd style beers are about 12 cents a liquid ounce, and up. So, beer in Utah
is double what it is in Nevada.

Aside from any cost for equipment, etc, how does home brewing cost compare
to your local retail costs per ounce? I thought it was going to be a lot
less, then I started buying stuff. I'll admit that I did get some good
stuff, but I bought it ALL at bargain prices. I got a good kegerator for
$10. I got four Cornies for free. I got $350 worth of bottling stuff for
$20. And STILL, the other day, I sent in an order for $220 for the last of
everything to bring my setup to complete. If I had bought it all retail, it
could have gone $2,000. So, I say aside from any equipment cost, as we all
have paid all ranges of prices for things, and there as many ways brew beer
as there is to cook a poodle.

So, then I was wondering was this a good deal or not to homebrew. SWMBO
also voiced concern. Then I crunched the numbers for ounce cost, and yes, I
believe it is cost effective. The equipment cost would compare to any other
hobby as per consumables.

Using the kits, from $25 to $40 for five gallons, costs for just the beer is
four to six cents an ounce. I have done no cost comparisons for all grain
brewing.

What's it like where you live?

Steve

[Doug Freyburger]

Post by Steve B
What is your retail cost on beer where you live?

The cost of the beer *I* drink? Let's see. Chimay comes in a 23 floz
bottle and each bottle costs somewhere in the range of $18-23. Guiness
at the pub comes in a 20 floz pint and costs $6 without, $7 with tip.
Across all ale purchases I'll go with roughly $0.50 per ounce amybe a
bit less.

Post by Steve B
Aside from any cost for equipment, etc, how does home brewing cost compare
to your local retail costs per ounce? I thought it was going to be a lot
less, then I started buying stuff. I'll admit that I did get some good
stuff, but I bought it ALL at bargain prices. I got a good kegerator for
$10. I got four Cornies for free. I got $350 worth of bottling stuff for
$20. And STILL, the other day, I sent in an order for $220 for the last of
everything to bring my setup to complete. If I had bought it all retail, it
could have gone $2,000. So, I say aside from any equipment cost, as we all
have paid all ranges of prices for things, and there as many ways brew beer
as there is to cook a poodle.

I doubt you'll ever find a home brewer who gets beer for less than he
can get it at the store. That's not what home brewing is about to most
of us.

Post by Steve B
So, then I was wondering was this a good deal or not to homebrew.

Brewing features economy of scale. If you get barley by the truckload
and malt your own and brew and age in vasts you can walk around in you
can have beer cheaper than you can buy in the store. Otherwise it's a
hobby for a reason.

Post by Steve B
SWMBO
also voiced concern. Then I crunched the numbers for ounce cost, and yes, I
believe it is cost effective. The equipment cost would compare to any other
hobby as per consumables.

Right. Hobbies cost money. Businesses make money. If you consider all
of your equipment as the price of a hobby not to be considered against
the price of the beer produced that brings the cost of the beer down
towards.

You still have to move towards getting grain in quantity and malting
your own to drive the price down further.

Cost effective is not a common goal among home brewers I have met. It
does not seem a common goal among the regualrs on RCB either.

[Ranger Steve]

Post by Steve B
What is your retail cost on beer where you live?

The cost of the beer *I* drink?  Let's see.  Chimay comes in a 23 floz
bottle and each bottle costs somewhere in the range of $18-23.  Guiness
at the pub comes in a 20 floz pint and costs $6 without, $7 with tip.
Across all ale purchases I'll go with roughly $0.50 per ounce amybe a
bit less.

Post by Steve B
Aside from any cost for equipment, etc, how does home brewing cost compare
to your local retail costs per ounce?  I thought it was going to be a lot
less, then I started buying stuff.  I'll admit that I did get some good
stuff, but I bought it ALL at bargain prices.  I got a good kegerator for
$10.  I got four Cornies for free.  I got $350 worth of bottling stuff for
$20.  And STILL, the other day, I sent in an order for $220 for the last of
everything to bring my setup to complete.  If I had bought it all retail, it
could have gone $2,000.  So, I say aside from any equipment cost, as we all
have paid all ranges of prices for things, and there as many ways brew beer
as there is to cook a poodle.

I doubt you'll ever find a home brewer who gets beer for less than he
can get it at the store.  That's not what home brewing is about to most
of us.

Post by Steve B
So, then I was wondering was this a good deal or not to homebrew.

Brewing features economy of scale.  If you get barley by the truckload
and malt your own and brew and age in vasts you can walk around in you
can have beer cheaper than you can buy in the store.  Otherwise it's a
hobby for a reason.

Post by Steve B
SWMBO
also voiced concern.  Then I crunched the numbers for ounce cost, and yes, I
believe it is cost effective.  The equipment cost would compare to any other
hobby as per consumables.

Right.  Hobbies cost money.  Businesses make money.  If you consider all
of your equipment as the price of a hobby not to be considered against
the price of the beer produced that brings the cost of the beer down
towards.
You still have to move towards getting grain in quantity and malting
your own to drive the price down further.
Cost effective is not a common goal among home brewers I have met.  It
does not seem a common goal among the regualrs on RCB either.

I agree - If you're just brewing to save money, you'll quickly tire of
the process and be left with a box of homebrew equipment gathering
dust.

[Bart Goddard]

Post by Ranger Steve
I agree - If you're just brewing to save money, you'll quickly tire of
the process and be left with a box of homebrew equipment gathering
dust.

...which I'll be happy to take off your hands cheaply, in order
to keep my costs down....heh..heh.

However, I disagree with the conventional wisdom that one can't
save substantialy money by homebrewing. I can make a 10 gallons of
IPA or Oktoberfest (and I don't mean one designed to be cheap. I
mean my best ones) for $46, counting the propane, CO2 and the cigar.
So a 15 gallon keg of this would be about $70, which is less
than half what I'd pay for a keg of comparable quality.

I estimate that I make the equivalent of about 10 15-gallon
kegs per year. That's 700 dollars per year for
equipment. I'm pretty sure I don't have $1000 worth of
equipment yet, unless you count the kegerator. In either case,
my first two years of brewing have paid for all equipment,
leaving me substantial savings in beer over the ensuing 16 years.

It's highly important that we get our stories straight here in
order to present a united front against the dark forces of SWMBO.

[Will Trice]

Post by Bart Goddard
However, I disagree with the conventional wisdom that one can't
save substantialy money by homebrewing. I can make a 10 gallons of
IPA or Oktoberfest (and I don't mean one designed to be cheap. I
mean my best ones) for $46, counting the propane, CO2 and the cigar.

You need to smoke better cigars. :)

-Will

will dot trice at comcast dot net

[Scott]

Post by Bart Goddard
However, I disagree with the conventional wisdom that one can't
save substantialy money by homebrewing. I can make a 10 gallons of
IPA or Oktoberfest (and I don't mean one designed to be cheap. I
mean my best ones) for $46, counting the propane, CO2 and the cigar.

You need to smoke better cigars. :)
-Will
will dot trice at comcast dot net

What?!?! Cigars are still 99 cents at 7-11, aren't they??? ;)

[Steve Bonine]

What?!?! Cigars are still 99 cents at 7-11, aren't they??? ;)

They went up from a nickle?

[Bart Goddard]

Post by Will Trice

Post by Bart Goddard
However, I disagree with the conventional wisdom that one can't
save substantialy money by homebrewing. I can make a 10 gallons of
IPA or Oktoberfest (and I don't mean one designed to be cheap. I
mean my best ones) for $46, counting the propane, CO2 and the cigar.

You need to smoke better cigars. :)

That's what I keep telling her. But she's harder to convince on
this point, since she likes beer, but hates cigars.

[Italo]

Post by Bart Goddard
However, I disagree with the conventional wisdom that one can't
save substantialy money by homebrewing.  I can make a 10 gallons of
IPA or Oktoberfest (and I don't mean one designed to be cheap.  I
mean my best ones) for $46, counting the propane, CO2 and the cigar.

You need to smoke better cigars.  :)
-Will
will dot trice at comcast dot net

If you're like me you can get a $10 cigar for 3 by buying the box on
cigarauctioneer.com and still be smoking great cigars and brewing a
great batch of beer
for under 50 bucks.

[Doug Freyburger]

Post by Bart Goddard
However, I disagree with the conventional wisdom that one can't
save substantialy money by homebrewing. I can make a 10 gallons of
IPA or Oktoberfest (and I don't mean one designed to be cheap. I
mean my best ones) for $46, counting the propane, CO2 and the cigar.
So a 15 gallon keg of this would be about $70, which is less
than half what I'd pay for a keg of comparable quality.

The better the ale you're comparing against the easier it is to make
home brew that competes up until they are the extremely good ones that
home brewers only dream of matching. Then again there was that one guy
who had a mini keg in his trunk with beer that matched Chimay in this
apples and oranges sort of way so clearly it's a possible dream not an
impossible dream ...

Try beating cheap beers by home brewing and it's trivial to make better
tasting beer but very hard to make less expensive beer. Trying beating
a beer that $15 per bottle and it's easy to beat it for price quite the
challenge to beat it for flavor.

Post by Bart Goddard
It's highly important that we get our stories straight here in
order to present a united front against the dark forces of SWMBO.

And make a point never to complain about the fancy nails. But do keep
the receipts so there's an easy point for comparing prices. If I spent
X dollars on my hobbies and my wife spends the same X dollars on her
hobbies then the discussion is about budgeting for our hobbies and
scaling them up or down together based on the money available. Parity
works.

[Scott]

Post by Doug Freyburger

Post by Bart Goddard
It's highly important that we get our stories straight here in
order to present a united front against the dark forces of SWMBO.

And make a point never to complain about the fancy nails. But do keep
the receipts so there's an easy point for comparing prices. If I spent
X dollars on my hobbies and my wife spends the same X dollars on her
hobbies then the discussion is about budgeting for our hobbies and
scaling them up or down together based on the money available. Parity
works.

Or a good beating. ;)

If my XYL (wife) complains about my brewing costs, I just tell her I
could go sit in the bar every Friday night for 4 hours.

Brew because you WANT to...don't try to do any math!!

Ace
Cardholding member of the "He-Man Woman Haters Club"
If you don't get the reference, you ain't old enough to be brewing :)

PS...of course, you ALL know this is just tongue-in-cheek, right?

[Bart Goddard]

Post by Doug Freyburger

Post by Bart Goddard
However, I disagree with the conventional wisdom that one can't
save substantialy money by homebrewing. I can make a 10 gallons of
IPA or Oktoberfest (and I don't mean one designed to be cheap. I
mean my best ones) for $46, counting the propane, CO2 and the cigar.
So a 15 gallon keg of this would be about $70, which is less
than half what I'd pay for a keg of comparable quality.

The better the ale you're comparing against the easier it is to make
home brew that competes up until they are the extremely good ones that
home brewers only dream of matching.

The comparison I had in mind was Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. My IPA is
substantially better, but I can make 15 gallons for $70 while 15
gallons of Sierra Nevada is about twice that. (I use this for
comparison because it's the only keg I ever bought.) SWMBO is
completely convinced of both of these facts. I'm saving $700
per year, because we would, indeed go through 10 kegs per year
in our household.

[T.J. Higgins]

Post by Ranger Steve

Cost effective is not a common goal among home brewers I have met.  It
does not seem a common goal among the regualrs on RCB either.

I agree - If you're just brewing to save money, you'll quickly tire of
the process and be left with a box of homebrew equipment gathering
dust.

I'm reminded of this old saying, seen in someone's sig file over
the years: "Homebrewing to save money on beer is like buying a
boat to save money on fish."

[Bob F]

Post by Steve B
What is your retail cost on beer where you live?
In Utah, it runs from 15 to 40 cents per liquid ounce. And some of
that is 3.2% beer.
In Nevada, for the Natural Ice, and that reallllly cheap stuff, it is
about 4 to 5 cents per ounce. $16 per 30 pack. Other beers go up
from there, but most standards are around eight cents, like Bud,
Coors, etc. The bombers of odd style beers are about 12 cents a
liquid ounce, and up. So, beer in Utah is double what it is in
Nevada.
Aside from any cost for equipment, etc, how does home brewing cost
compare to your local retail costs per ounce? I thought it was going
to be a lot less, then I started buying stuff. I'll admit that I did
get some good stuff, but I bought it ALL at bargain prices. I got a
good kegerator for $10. I got four Cornies for free. I got $350
worth of bottling stuff for $20. And STILL, the other day, I sent in
an order for $220 for the last of everything to bring my setup to
complete. If I had bought it all retail, it could have gone $2,000. So, I say
aside from any equipment cost, as we all have paid all
ranges of prices for things, and there as many ways brew beer as
there is to cook a poodle.
So, then I was wondering was this a good deal or not to homebrew. SWMBO also
voiced concern. Then I crunched the numbers for ounce
cost, and yes, I believe it is cost effective. The equipment cost
would compare to any other hobby as per consumables.
Using the kits, from $25 to $40 for five gallons, costs for just the
beer is four to six cents an ounce. I have done no cost comparisons
for all grain brewing.
What's it like where you live?

What are you worrying about cost for? After all your complaints about the beer
available in Utah?

[Steve B]

Post by Bob F
What are you worrying about cost for? After all your complaints about the
beer available in Utah?

If I was worrying about the cost, I wouldn't be doing this. I was just
asking for comparisons. I live in a state where ANY beer is extremely
expensive for what you get. ALL beers are available in Utah. They're just
expensive.

Steve

[Etian]

Post by Steve B

Post by Bob F
What are you worrying about cost for? After all your complaints about the
beer available in Utah?

If I was worrying about the cost, I wouldn't be doing this. I was just
asking for comparisons. I live in a state where ANY beer is extremely
expensive for what you get. ALL beers are available in Utah. They're just
expensive.
Steve

In heavily taxed places, you home-brew in order to assert your liberty
and stick it to the government, not just to save money.

Mormons don't drink beer. They don't drink colas either, but is there a
caffeine tax?

[Steve B]

In heavily taxed places, you home-brew in order to assert your liberty and
stick it to the government, not just to save money.
Mormons don't drink beer. They don't drink colas either, but is there a
caffeine tax?

You are wrong on both counts. Mormons love beer, and they love cokes,
Pepsis, mountain dew, monster drinks, red bull, etc.

Mormons follow the tide. In the original "Word of Wisdom", their
instructions re: alcohol, caffeine, etc., soda was not included, even though
some sodas have more caffeine than coffee. When questioned what to do, the
church leaders, (at that time owning a large chunk of either Coke or Pepsi)
prayed and had a divine revelation that cold soft drinks were okay and
didn't fall under the Word of Wisdom, although some are HEAVILY caffeinated.
It's a financial thing rather than theological.

I get out in the woods a lot, and it is not uncommon to find places with
2-10 cases of beer empties laying about. Mormons DO drink, but just as
Baptists in dry counties in the south, they do it secretly. The arrest
records for public intoxication and DUI show statistically that Utah
residents are right up there with the rest of the world.

Now, what they say is something different.

And they don't mind taxing the hell out of it, but no, they do not have any
special taxes on caffeinated drinks that I know of. But I don't drink Red
Bull or that stuff due to heart problems, so I don't know how that compares
cost wise to a state such as Nevada. I shall look, though.

Steve

[Bob F]

Post by Steve B
I get out in the woods a lot, and it is not uncommon to find places
with 2-10 cases of beer empties laying about. Mormons DO drink, but
just as Baptists in dry counties in the south, they do it secretly. The arrest
records for public intoxication and DUI show statistically
that Utah residents are right up there with the rest of the world.

Is that really true, or do they just really drive the non mormons to drink?

My sister bailed out of the Idaho Falls area because she just could put up with
mormons anymore.

[Steve B]

Post by Bob F

Post by Steve B
I get out in the woods a lot, and it is not uncommon to find places
with 2-10 cases of beer empties laying about. Mormons DO drink, but
just as Baptists in dry counties in the south, they do it secretly. The
arrest records for public intoxication and DUI show statistically
that Utah residents are right up there with the rest of the world.

Is that really true, or do they just really drive the non mormons to drink?
My sister bailed out of the Idaho Falls area because she just could put up
with mormons anymore.

Most of us drinkers won't go way out in the woods. Frickin' driving through
the woods while dusted ........ what's wrong with this picture? We'll do it
most anywhere, except behind the wheel, of course. Or, in Utah, on a horse.
;-) No guilt involved, and no alcohol brownshirts lurking to report us to a
bishop.

I monitor police scanner. Let me tell you, there are LOTS of "citizens" who
call in people who are "drinking" while driving, although many of them turn
out to be drinking soda pop. I know several people who tell the same story.
Stopped by police, "Sir, the reason we stopped you was that a citizen
reported someone in a car of your description was drinking while driving."
It's just a little scary that some of these people are so brainwashed. Get
those assholes who are texting and yakking on their cell phones if you want
to "protect and serve."

It's like that AA thing. Screw it, pardner. You just need to learn to deal
with your guilt and get away from manipulative people. Now, go have a beer.

Steve

[Doug Freyburger]

Post by Etian
In heavily taxed places, you home-brew in order to assert your liberty
and stick it to the government, not just to save money.

I thought that was moonshiners making illegal distillates. I do like
the untaxed status of my home brew but not to the point of concentrating
it. That never happens. Not even freeze concentration.

[Steve B]

Post by Doug Freyburger

Post by Etian
In heavily taxed places, you home-brew in order to assert your liberty
and stick it to the government, not just to save money.

I thought that was moonshiners making illegal distillates. I do like
the untaxed status of my home brew but not to the point of concentrating
it. That never happens. Not even freeze concentration.

If it was not so much hassle, I would absolutely be interested in brewing
spirits. My old Polish grandpa was known in the hills of NW Pennsylvania
for his shine.

Steve

[Dick Adams]

Post by Steve B

Post by Doug Freyburger

Post by Etian
In heavily taxed places, you home-brew in order to assert your
liberty and stick it to the government, not just to save money.

I thought that was moonshiners making illegal distillates. I do
like the untaxed status of my home brew but not to the point of
concentrating it. That never happens. Not even freeze concentration.

If it was not so much hassle, I would absolutely be interested in
brewing spirits. My old Polish grandpa was known in the hills of
NW Pennsylvania for his shine.

All of the Alcohol Laws in the USA have to do with taxation.
States usially permit you to brew up to 50 gallons both beer
and wine per adult (max=2) in a household without paying tax.
Nobody hassles anybody about this unless you are selling or
you're an all around RPITA.

If the ATF finds out you are running a still for other than
ethanol, woe be unto you! Look up "Nasty Bastard" on
Wikipedia and you will see a photo array of ATF agents.

As for Freeze Concentration, besides being technically illegal,
I doubt it is worth the effort. To increase the ABV of five
gallons of a 6% beer to 7%, you have to remove .8 gallon of
ice crystal from the beer - Plus you risk oxidation.

Dick

[Steve B]

Post by Dick Adams
If the ATF finds out you are running a still for other than
ethanol, woe be unto you! Look up "Nasty Bastard" on
Wikipedia and you will see a photo array of ATF agents.

If there ever was any crime where punishment was a deterrent, I think
moonshining would be it. I've thought of murdering a couple of people a
couple of times, and the jail time never crossed my mind. The thought of
dealing with the ATF scares the idea of shining right out of my head.

Steve

[Dick Adams]

Post by Steve B

Post by Dick Adams
If the ATF finds out you are running a still for other than
ethanol, woe be unto you! Look up "Nasty Bastard" on
Wikipedia and you will see a photo array of ATF agents.

If there ever was any crime where punishment was a deterrent,
I think moonshining would be it. I've thought of murdering a
couple of people a couple of times, and the jail time never
crossed my mind. The thought of dealing with the ATF scares
the idea of shining right out of my head.

I believe the penalty for murder is better than the penalty for
divorce.

Dick

[Rick B]

I did the math on this years ago. I kept all receipts for my brewing
expenses for a year. Checked my log book for the number of gallons brewed,
and did the math. I came up with a figure of 17 cents for a 16 ounce glass.
My figures did not include any equipment, just the malt, yeast, and hops.
I saved on all the sales taxes California would have normally charged,
because the state considers all these items "edible," as well as the sales
tax on bottled beer, and the alcohol taxes the US Gov't charges. I did not
include any figures for water usage. With current retail prices for malted
barley, hops, etc. I would expect the cost to be a bit higher, but by
brewing my own, my savings are considerable.

Rick B

"Steve B" wrote in message news:25Jpq.52$***@news.usenetserver.com...

What is your retail cost on beer where you live?

In Utah, it runs from 15 to 40 cents per liquid ounce. And some of that is
3.2% beer.

In Nevada, for the Natural Ice, and that reallllly cheap stuff, it is about
4 to 5 cents per ounce. $16 per 30 pack. Other beers go up from there, but
most standards are around eight cents, like Bud, Coors, etc. The bombers of
odd style beers are about 12 cents a liquid ounce, and up. So, beer in Utah
is double what it is in Nevada.

Aside from any cost for equipment, etc, how does home brewing cost compare
to your local retail costs per ounce? I thought it was going to be a lot
less, then I started buying stuff. I'll admit that I did get some good
stuff, but I bought it ALL at bargain prices. I got a good kegerator for
$10. I got four Cornies for free. I got $350 worth of bottling stuff for
$20. And STILL, the other day, I sent in an order for $220 for the last of
everything to bring my setup to complete. If I had bought it all retail, it
could have gone $2,000. So, I say aside from any equipment cost, as we all
have paid all ranges of prices for things, and there as many ways brew beer
as there is to cook a poodle.

So, then I was wondering was this a good deal or not to homebrew. SWMBO
also voiced concern. Then I crunched the numbers for ounce cost, and yes, I
believe it is cost effective. The equipment cost would compare to any other
hobby as per consumables.

Using the kits, from $25 to $40 for five gallons, costs for just the beer is
four to six cents an ounce. I have done no cost comparisons for all grain
brewing.

What's it like where you live?

Steve

[Steve Bonine]

I did the math on this years ago. I kept all receipts for my brewing
expenses for a year. Checked my log book for the number of gallons
brewed, and did the math. I came up with a figure of 17 cents for a 16
ounce glass. My figures did not include any equipment, just the malt,
yeast, and hops. I saved on all the sales taxes California would have
normally charged, because the state considers all these items "edible,"
as well as the sales tax on bottled beer, and the alcohol taxes the US
Gov't charges. I did not include any figures for water usage. With
current retail prices for malted barley, hops, etc. I would expect the
cost to be a bit higher, but by brewing my own, my savings are
considerable.

A five gallon batch is 40 of those 16-ounce glasses. That implies that
you can brew a five-gallon batch for $6.80 for malt, yeast, and hops.
Larger batches change the numbers a bit but that still seems low.

I think you're deluding yourself with the cost figure you're quoting.
The amortized equipment cost could be as significant as raw materials.
There's an energy cost that you didn't consider. If you keg there's
consumables related to that; if you bottle there's at least the cost of
caps. You didn't assign any cost to your time. And then there's the
issue that if you have beer available you're going to consume more than
if you buy it retail.

Assigning an even remotely accurate cost to the beer we brew is more
than adding the cost of raw materials and dividing by yield.

[b***@ureach.com]

My biggest cost is real estate. Interest, taxes, insurance. My brew
space is 80 sq ft. Annual property taxes for this space (Houston, TX)
are more than $300/yr. Mortgage interest more than $600/yr. Insurance
cost of $100/yr. That totals more than $1000/yr, and that doesn't
include maintenance, utilities, equipment, time. It would be more
economical to buy imported beer.

Roger

[rgb]

In article <64fc5daa-d46b-4e57-bd0c-35d7fa2697a6
@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, ***@ureach.com says...

Post by b***@ureach.com
My biggest cost is real estate. Interest, taxes, insurance. My brew
space is 80 sq ft. Annual property taxes for this space (Houston, TX)
are more than $300/yr. Mortgage interest more than $600/yr. Insurance
cost of $100/yr. That totals more than $1000/yr, and that doesn't
include maintenance, utilities, equipment, time. It would be more
economical to buy imported beer.

I find this reasoning curious: do you have to lease extra space to brew
or give up something else? Are you doing it commercially?

For me, I'm paying taxes and interest on my property whether or not I
brew. It's not like I can deduct some taxes or a portion of my mortgage
if I don't brew, and it personally makes no sense to me to include that
in my brewing costs.

I'd be paying all those same costs even if I opt to buy imported beer.
But perhaps you have a very different arrangement...

[Steve B]

Post by rgb
In article <64fc5daa-d46b-4e57-bd0c-35d7fa2697a6
@h42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, ***@ureach.com says...

Post by b***@ureach.com
My biggest cost is real estate. Interest, taxes, insurance. My brew
space is 80 sq ft. Annual property taxes for this space (Houston, TX)
are more than $300/yr. Mortgage interest more than $600/yr. Insurance
cost of $100/yr. That totals more than $1000/yr, and that doesn't
include maintenance, utilities, equipment, time. It would be more
economical to buy imported beer.

I find this reasoning curious: do you have to lease extra space to brew
or give up something else? Are you doing it commercially?
For me, I'm paying taxes and interest on my property whether or not I
brew. It's not like I can deduct some taxes or a portion of my mortgage
if I don't brew, and it personally makes no sense to me to include that
in my brewing costs.
I'd be paying all those same costs even if I opt to buy imported beer.
But perhaps you have a very different arrangement...

I don't believe one can deduct brewing. If they could, my wife would
already be doing it. But I'll ask her. She's a CPA, and if there's a
loophole, she will know it.

Steve

[b***@ureach.com]

I had a shed built on my lot for a brewroom. I pay property tax and
insurance on the extra square footage.

Roger

[rgb]

In article

Post by b***@ureach.com
I had a shed built on my lot for a brewroom. I pay property tax and
insurance on the extra square footage.
Roger

Ahh - OK. Quite different than my setup.

[Rick B]

You're right, I didn't include electricity costs because I brew at work, so
the power costs are taken care of by my business, as well as the water that
I use both to brew and to cool the wort. I built the equipment 20 years
ago, so it's pretty much fully amortized, and obtained my 25 corny's for
free from a friend who owned a restaurant. As far as my time goes, like I
said, I brew at work, and get paid for doing it.

I did the math on this years ago. I kept all receipts for my brewing
expenses for a year. Checked my log book for the number of gallons
brewed, and did the math. I came up with a figure of 17 cents for a 16
ounce glass. My figures did not include any equipment, just the malt,
yeast, and hops. I saved on all the sales taxes California would have
normally charged, because the state considers all these items "edible,"
as well as the sales tax on bottled beer, and the alcohol taxes the US
Gov't charges. I did not include any figures for water usage. With
current retail prices for malted barley, hops, etc. I would expect the
cost to be a bit higher, but by brewing my own, my savings are
considerable.

A five gallon batch is 40 of those 16-ounce glasses. That implies that
you can brew a five-gallon batch for $6.80 for malt, yeast, and hops.
Larger batches change the numbers a bit but that still seems low.

I think you're deluding yourself with the cost figure you're quoting.
The amortized equipment cost could be as significant as raw materials.
There's an energy cost that you didn't consider. If you keg there's
consumables related to that; if you bottle there's at least the cost of
caps. You didn't assign any cost to your time. And then there's the
issue that if you have beer available you're going to consume more than
if you buy it retail.

Assigning an even remotely accurate cost to the beer we brew is more
than adding the cost of raw materials and dividing by yield.

[Steve B]

Post by Rick B
I did the math on this years ago. I kept all receipts for my brewing
expenses for a year. Checked my log book for the number of gallons brewed,
and did the math. I came up with a figure of 17 cents for a 16 ounce glass.

I based my figures on $25 per kit. I am not familiar enough with whole
grain to make an estimate on that. Still, I would imagine that the cost
would go down using thing other than the kits.

Steve

[Scott]

Post by Steve B

Post by Rick B
I did the math on this years ago. I kept all receipts for my brewing
expenses for a year. Checked my log book for the number of gallons brewed,
and did the math. I came up with a figure of 17 cents for a 16 ounce glass.

I based my figures on $25 per kit. I am not familiar enough with whole
grain to make an estimate on that. Still, I would imagine that the cost
would go down using thing other than the kits.
Steve

Still has to be some math error. 5 gallons equals 40 pint glasses. $25
divided by 40 is 62.5 cents/pint glass.

[Steve B]

Post by Scott

Post by Steve B

Post by Rick B
I did the math on this years ago. I kept all receipts for my brewing
expenses for a year. Checked my log book for the number of gallons brewed,
and did the math. I came up with a figure of 17 cents for a 16 ounce glass.

I based my figures on $25 per kit. I am not familiar enough with whole
grain to make an estimate on that. Still, I would imagine that the cost
would go down using thing other than the kits.
Steve

Still has to be some math error. 5 gallons equals 40 pint glasses. $25
divided by 40 is 62.5 cents/pint glass.

5 gallons x 128 oz. = 640 ounces
$25 divided by 640 equals $.0390625 per ounce.
At least, where I went to school.
You're talking pints, and I am talking ounces.
$.625 divided by 16 oz = 3.90625 cents per ounce.

Math is your friend.

You will notice my fingers never left my hands, and only one was used to
operate the calculator.

Steve

[Scott]

Post by Steve B

Post by Scott

Post by Steve B

Post by Rick B
I did the math on this years ago. I kept all receipts for my brewing
expenses for a year. Checked my log book for the number of gallons brewed,
and did the math. I came up with a figure of 17 cents for a 16 ounce glass.

I based my figures on $25 per kit. I am not familiar enough with whole
grain to make an estimate on that. Still, I would imagine that the cost
would go down using thing other than the kits.
Steve

Still has to be some math error. 5 gallons equals 40 pint glasses. $25
divided by 40 is 62.5 cents/pint glass.

5 gallons x 128 oz. = 640 ounces
$25 divided by 640 equals $.0390625 per ounce.

OK there, P.T. Barnum. What's the gag? $.0390625 is the same as
3.90625 cents. :O

Post by Steve B
At least, where I went to school.
You're talking pints, and I am talking ounces.

$.0390625 X 16 (ounces) equals $.625 or 62.5 cents for those 16 ounces
(same as my pint glass).

Post by Steve B
$.625 divided by 16 oz = 3.90625 cents per ounce.
Math is your friend.

Not anymore! ;)

Post by Steve B
You will notice my fingers never left my hands, and only one was used to
operate the calculator.
Steve

[Steve B]

Post by Steve B

Post by Scott

Post by Steve B

Post by Rick B
I did the math on this years ago. I kept all receipts for my brewing
expenses for a year. Checked my log book for the number of gallons brewed,
and did the math. I came up with a figure of 17 cents for a 16 ounce glass.

I based my figures on $25 per kit. I am not familiar enough with whole
grain to make an estimate on that. Still, I would imagine that the cost
would go down using thing other than the kits.
Steve

Still has to be some math error. 5 gallons equals 40 pint glasses. $25
divided by 40 is 62.5 cents/pint glass.

5 gallons x 128 oz. = 640 ounces
$25 divided by 640 equals $.0390625 per ounce.

OK there, P.T. Barnum. What's the gag? $.0390625 is the same as 3.90625
cents. :O

Post by Steve B
At least, where I went to school.
You're talking pints, and I am talking ounces.

$.0390625 X 16 (ounces) equals $.625 or 62.5 cents for those 16 ounces
(same as my pint glass).

Post by Steve B
$.625 divided by 16 oz = 3.90625 cents per ounce.
Math is your friend.

Not anymore! ;)

Post by Steve B
You will notice my fingers never left my hands, and only one was used to
operate the calculator.
Steve

He was stating the price by the pint glass, not thinking that the pint had
16 oz. in it. I was stating price by fluid ounce. Using his figures, which
he stated showed I was wrong, I showed him that the price came out the same
if one just did the math CORRECTLY.

Steve

[Ranger Steve]

Post by Steve B

Post by Steve B

I did the math on this years ago.  I kept all receipts for my brewing
expenses for a year.  Checked my log book for the number of gallons
brewed,
and did the math.  I came up with a figure of 17 cents for a 16 ounce
glass.

I based my figures on $25 per kit.  I am not familiar enough with whole
grain to make an estimate on that.  Still, I would imagine that the
cost
would go down using thing other than the kits.
Steve

Still has to be some math error.  5 gallons equals 40 pint glasses.  $25
divided by 40 is 62.5 cents/pint glass.

5 gallons x 128 oz. = 640 ounces
$25 divided by 640 equals $.0390625 per ounce.

OK there, P.T. Barnum.  What's the gag?  $.0390625 is the same as 3.90625
cents.  :O

Post by Steve B
At least, where I went to school.
You're talking pints, and I am talking ounces.

$.0390625 X 16 (ounces) equals $.625 or 62.5 cents for those 16 ounces
(same as my pint glass).

Post by Steve B
$.625 divided by 16 oz = 3.90625 cents per ounce.
Math is your friend.

Not anymore!  ;)

Post by Steve B
You will notice my fingers never left my hands, and only one was used to
operate the calculator.
Steve

He was stating the price by the pint glass, not thinking that the pint had
16 oz. in it.  I was stating price by fluid ounce.  Using his figures, which
he stated showed I was wrong, I showed him that the price came out the same
if one just did the math CORRECTLY.
Steve

How many angels can dance on a tap handle?

[Steve B]

"Ranger Steve" <***@gmail.com> wrote

How many angels can dance on a tap handle?

The number can be squared, depending on focus. In my life, when I could see
better by closing one eye, I knew it was time to go to bed.

Steve

[Steve Bonine]

Post by Ranger Steve
How many angels can dance on a tap handle?

6,291,302

[Will Trice]

Post by Steve Bonine

Post by Ranger Steve
How many angels can dance on a tap handle?

6,291,302

Wrong.

-Will

will dot trice at comcast dot net

[Rick B]

Sorry for taking so long to post, but I run my own business, and have been
quite busy for the past couple of months...a good problem to have nowadays!
I buy Sierra Nevada Pale Ale at Costco for about $26.14 a case, including
recycling costs and sales tax. Works out to about 9 cents per ounce. I
made all my own brewing equipment (boiler, mashtun, sparger, and
fermentation tanks) out of acrylic and polypropylene plastics 20 years ago,
because I didn't like what was available commercially then, and because I
was brewing in 15 gallon batches at the time. I'm still using the same
equipment, it's really held up over the years.

Rick B

"Rick B" wrote in message news:j9bl7v$lso$***@speranza.aioe.org...

I did the math on this years ago. I kept all receipts for my brewing
expenses for a year. Checked my log book for the number of gallons brewed,
and did the math. I came up with a figure of 17 cents for a 16 ounce glass.
My figures did not include any equipment, just the malt, yeast, and hops.
I saved on all the sales taxes California would have normally charged,
because the state considers all these items "edible," as well as the sales
tax on bottled beer, and the alcohol taxes the US Gov't charges. I did not
include any figures for water usage. With current retail prices for malted
barley, hops, etc. I would expect the cost to be a bit higher, but by
brewing my own, my savings are considerable.

Rick B

"Steve B" wrote in message news:25Jpq.52$***@news.usenetserver.com...

What is your retail cost on beer where you live?

In Utah, it runs from 15 to 40 cents per liquid ounce. And some of that is
3.2% beer.

In Nevada, for the Natural Ice, and that reallllly cheap stuff, it is about
4 to 5 cents per ounce. $16 per 30 pack. Other beers go up from there, but
most standards are around eight cents, like Bud, Coors, etc. The bombers of
odd style beers are about 12 cents a liquid ounce, and up. So, beer in Utah
is double what it is in Nevada.

Aside from any cost for equipment, etc, how does home brewing cost compare
to your local retail costs per ounce? I thought it was going to be a lot
less, then I started buying stuff. I'll admit that I did get some good
stuff, but I bought it ALL at bargain prices. I got a good kegerator for
$10. I got four Cornies for free. I got $350 worth of bottling stuff for
$20. And STILL, the other day, I sent in an order for $220 for the last of
everything to bring my setup to complete. If I had bought it all retail, it
could have gone $2,000. So, I say aside from any equipment cost, as we all
have paid all ranges of prices for things, and there as many ways brew beer
as there is to cook a poodle.

So, then I was wondering was this a good deal or not to homebrew. SWMBO
also voiced concern. Then I crunched the numbers for ounce cost, and yes, I
believe it is cost effective. The equipment cost would compare to any other
hobby as per consumables.

Using the kits, from $25 to $40 for five gallons, costs for just the beer is
four to six cents an ounce. I have done no cost comparisons for all grain
brewing.

What's it like where you live?

Steve

[Monty Henderson]

I am not interested in the cost or savings...I am fascinated by the process and I REALLY like good ale!

[Steve B]

Post by Monty Henderson
I am not interested in the cost or savings...I am fascinated by the process
and I REALLY like good ale!

HOLD YER PHONE CALLS, FOLKS. WE HAVE A WINNER.

I enjoy beer. Except when it costs $13 or so for a bomber. It's like a
hummer. Sorry, but a $5 hummer is as good as a $500 hummer, just better
labeling.

I was just trying to get a baseline as to cost per mass produced name brand
beer (Bud, Coors, et al) vs. the stuff that one could EASILY (DID YOU GET
THAT, BUNKIE, KEYWORD: EASILY) BREW FOR ABOUT THE SAME COST AS THE
$12/BOMBER TYPE.

Hope this did not confuse the easily confused. I know for me, it showed me
that I can go crazy on homebrew that would have cost me an arm and a leg to
buy at one bomber at a time prices.

HTH

Steve

[Doug Freyburger]

I enjoy beer. Except when it costs $13 or so for a bomber ...
I was just trying to get a baseline as to cost per mass produced name
brand beer (Bud, Coors, et al) vs. the stuff that one could EASILY ...
BREW FOR ABOUT THE SAME COST AS THE $12/BOMBER TYPE.

To me the good news is the most easily brewed types are ales that are
good to compare to the type that is expensive at bars, what you call the
bomber I suppose.

To me it's not fair to compare against the cost of canoe beers, though.
Those are brewed by the majors in vast amounts and they get a lot of
economy of scale. A better comparison would be a near by microbrew.
Those are all more expensive than the majors but you still have to work
very hard to pull down the price of homebrew to compete with them.