Looking Back

[Denny Conn]

22 years ago, shortly after I had started brewing, I found this group. I quickly figured out who knew what and learned a lot. 565 batches later, I just thought if it again and decide I'd check in. How's everybody doing?

[Bill O'Meally]

Post by Denny Conn
22 years ago, shortly after I had started brewing, I found this group.
I quickly figured out who knew what and learned a lot. 565 batches
later, I just thought if it again and decide I'd check in. How's
everybody doing?

Hey Denny! I'm doing great, though I can't claim nearly as many
batches. I always have a keg of your Rye PA on tap, though I add
caraway seed to the dry hopper.

I was just going to ask my local brewmaster, but in that I (hopefully)
have YOUR ear, here goes: I have brewed fruit beers, and have dry
hopped, but not both in one batch. I am brewing a sour, fruited (sweet
cherries and serviceberries) milkshake IPA. In which order would you
recommend adding the fruit vs dry hops? My thinking is if I dry hop
first, any benefit from aroma will be blown off in the refermentation
of the fruit. There's also the new (to me) concept of
biotransformation: should I add the hopw WITH the fruit?

Thanks for checking in. I can't say I have been too active in this
group of late either, though I do check in every few days. Cheers!

[gtwrek]

Post by Bill O'Meally

Post by Denny Conn
22 years ago, shortly after I had started brewing, I found this group.
I quickly figured out who knew what and learned a lot. 565 batches
later, I just thought if it again and decide I'd check in. How's
everybody doing?

Hey Denny! I'm doing great, though I can't claim nearly as many
batches. I always have a keg of your Rye PA on tap, though I add
caraway seed to the dry hopper.

Caraway seeds in the dry hop. You have my attention sir. Care to share
the recipe? I'm almost embarrased to admit, the I wasn't familiar with
Denny's Rye IPA recipe. Google led me towards HBT forums, and now I'm
on page 2 of 21 of the recipe discussion. It's on my todo list now.

How much caraway seeds?

Regards,
Mark

[Bill O'Meally]

Post by gtwrek
Caraway seeds in the dry hop. You have my attention sir. Care to share
the recipe? I'm almost embarrased to admit, the I wasn't familiar with
Denny's Rye IPA recipe. Google led me towards HBT forums, and now I'm
on page 2 of 21 of the recipe discussion. It's on my todo list now.
How much caraway seeds?

If I may presume, and I would certainly welcome and critiques Denny may
offer regarding my touches. I have always loved rye bread with caraway
seeds, hence my addition:

Car-ryed Away IPA (Based on Denny Conn's Wry Smile IPA)

Grain Bill:
11 lb 2-row
3 lb rye malt
0.5 lb CaraPils
0.5 lb white wheat malt
1.25 lb 60L crystal malt

Yeast:
WY 1272 American Ale II or WY 1056 American Ale I (make a starter a few
days in advance)

Hop (and adjunct) Schedule:
1 oz Mt Hood FWH
1 oz Columbus 60 min
0.5 oz Mt Hood 30 min
Tsp Irish Moss 15 min
1.5 oz Mt Hood 0 min
1 oz Citra dry (original calls for 1 oz Columbus)
1 tsp caraway seed dry
(optional Iso-Alpha extract to bring up bittering if needed. I use up
to 25 drops)

1.3 qt/lb @ 153°F x 1 hr.

OG 1.080

[Baloonon]

Post by Bill O'Meally
1 tsp caraway seed dry

How noticable is a teaspoon in a 5 gallon batch? I usually grind a teaspoon
and add it to rye bread, and the effect is pretty subtle.

On the other hand, subtle is often what you want when adding spices to
beer.

[Bill O'Meally]

Post by Baloonon

Post by Bill O'Meally
1 tsp caraway seed dry

How noticable is a teaspoon in a 5 gallon batch? I usually grind a teaspoon
and add it to rye bread, and the effect is pretty subtle.
On the other hand, subtle is often what you want when adding spices to
beer.

Subtle and noticeable. :-)

[Baloonon]

Post by Bill O'Meally

Post by Baloonon

Post by Bill O'Meally
1 tsp caraway seed dry

How noticable is a teaspoon in a 5 gallon batch? I usually grind a
teaspoon and add it to rye bread, and the effect is pretty subtle.
On the other hand, subtle is often what you want when adding spices
to beer.

Subtle and noticeable. :-)

Thanks. I like Aquavit, so I may try something like this sometime.

[Joerg]

Post by Denny Conn
22 years ago, shortly after I had started brewing, I found this
group. I quickly figured out who knew what and learned a lot. 565
batches later, I just thought if it again and decide I'd check in.
How's everybody doing?

I found this group more recently. Not many participants but all good
people and no politics, which is great.

Tuesday I brewed batches #185 and #186, a Cream Ale and a hoppy Red Ale.
All mostly extract-based here for various reasons. This is an earlier
photo of the place where it all turns into the good stuff:

Loading Image...

[Denny Conn]

Post by Denny Conn
22 years ago, shortly after I had started brewing, I found this group. I quickly figured out who knew what and learned a lot. 565 batches later, I just thought if it again and decide I'd check in. How's everybody doing?

Hey everybody! First of all, the yeast for the Rye IPA should be WY1450 Denny's Favorite. Bill, I don't do sours or fruits, but my first reaction is don't do both. If you do, I'd do the fruit first.

[Bill O'Meally]

Post by Denny Conn

Post by Denny Conn
22 years ago, shortly after I had started brewing, I found this group.
I quickly figured out who knew what and learned a lot. 565 batches
later, I just thought if it again and decide I'd check in. How's
everybody doing?

Hey everybody! First of all, the yeast for the Rye IPA should be
WY1450 Denny's Favorite. Bill, I don't do sours or fruits, but my
first reaction is don't do both. If you do, I'd do the fruit first.

Thanks Denny. But are you saying the 1272 or 1056 are not appropriate
or just that the 1450 is better? I have been using the American Ale
yeasts since I first started brewing the recipe in 2007 (when it won
2nd place in Wisconsin State fair! :-)) around the time (I believe) you
posted the recipe on this forum.

The sour wort is currently sitting on the fruit, after which I will
rack into a corney keg purged with CO2, and in which I will dry hop for
5 days. Thinking of adding a pinch (maybe about 10 ppm) metabisulfite
to scavange any small amounts of oxygen left in the mix. Winemakers do
it all the time to prevent oxidization. Why not brewers?

[Howard]

Post by Bill O'Meally
The sour wort is currently sitting on the fruit, after which I will
rack into a corney keg purged with CO2, and in which I will dry hop
for 5 days. Thinking of adding a pinch (maybe about 10 ppm)
metabisulfite to scavange any small amounts of oxygen left in the mix.
Winemakers do it all the time to prevent oxidization. Why not
brewers?

This is some takes on the issue:

<http://brulosophy.com/2019/02/11/post-fermentation-oxidation-the-impact-
adding-sodium-metabisulfite-at-packaging-has-on-beer-exbeeriment-results/>

http://brulosophy.com/2019/09/23/cold-side-oxidation-impact-of-dosing-beer-
with-sodium-metabisulfite-smb-at-packaging-exbeeriment-results/

<http://brulosophy.com/2020/03/23/cold-side-oxidation-impact-of-dosing-
beer-with-potassium-metabisulfite-pmb-at-packaging-exbeeriment-results/>

The blind taste tests for sodium metabisulfate found a significant number
of people could tell the difference between dosed and undosed beer, but
opinions about which was better were split.

The potassium metabisulfite taste test did not find a significant number of
testers who could tell the difference.

Obviously it's only limited data points with a lot of other possible ways
of testing, but I think it's still interesting.

[Bill O'Meally]

Post by Howard

Post by Bill O'Meally
The sour wort is currently sitting on the fruit, after which I will
rack into a corney keg purged with CO2, and in which I will dry hop
for 5 days. Thinking of adding a pinch (maybe about 10 ppm)
metabisulfite to scavange any small amounts of oxygen left in the mix.
Winemakers do it all the time to prevent oxidization. Why not
brewers?

<http://brulosophy.com/2019/02/11/post-fermentation-oxidation-the-impact-
adding-sodium-metabisulfite-at-packaging-has-on-beer-exbeeriment-results/>
http://brulosophy.com/2019/09/23/cold-side-oxidation-impact-of-dosing-beer-
with-sodium-metabisulfite-smb-at-packaging-exbeeriment-results/
<http://brulosophy.com/2020/03/23/cold-side-oxidation-impact-of-dosing-
beer-with-potassium-metabisulfite-pmb-at-packaging-exbeeriment-results/>
The blind taste tests for sodium metabisulfate found a significant number
of people could tell the difference between dosed and undosed beer, but
opinions about which was better were split.
The potassium metabisulfite taste test did not find a significant number of
testers who could tell the difference.
Obviously it's only limited data points with a lot of other possible ways
of testing, but I think it's still interesting.

Thanks for sharing these exbeeriments -- I found them fascinating. The
one where he uses SMB for a NEIPA in <cringe> unpurged kegs was
especially apt for me. The beer without the sulfite was obviously a bit
oxidized at only 5 days after kegging, when compared with the sulfited
keg. Interstingly, the former was deemed to have a bit more hop
character by the exbeerimenter initially, only to be surpassed with
time by the beer with the sulfite.

I never realized, or at least forgot, that metabisulfites will also
scavange chloramines in the brew water.

Regarding kegging, keeping in mind that even with multiple CO2 purges,
there will still be a few ppm of O2 in the mix (according to that
partial pressure of gasses stuff I vaguely remember from college). One
way around that is to fill the keg with sanitizer solution, then purge
that out completely with CO2. I am feeling a bit more emboldened to use
the PMB (never used the sodium, which was deemed more noticeable though
not necessarily in a negative sense) that I use for winemaking with my
brewing. Especially with my more oxygen sensitive dry hopped beers.

Again, thanks for sharing!

[Denny Conn]

simply that I prefer 1450

[Bill O'Meally]

Post by Denny Conn
simply that I prefer 1450

I'll give it a try next batch!

[David M. Taylor]

22 years ago, shortly after I had started brewing, I found this group. I quickly figured out who knew what and learned a lot. 565 batches later, I just thought if it again and decide I'd check in. How's everybody doing?

We're still alive! Our crazy concoctions (well, those, and the COVID) ain't killed us yet!

--
Dave

"This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption. Let us give praise to our Maker, and glory to His bounty, by learning about... BEER!" - Friar Tuck (Robin Hood - Prince of Thieves)